Interesting, curious to see how low msp 717 actually went

yes I’m curious what “junior” means to my bud, but I feel there will be a lot of surprises on this bid from what BS had mentioned.

When the ER catagory started flying domestic flying in NYC back in ‘10-‘11, the answer to why do we have so many early departures and late arrivals, (i.e. uncommutable trips) the answer was all the O & D passengers. In other words, because a lot of passengers begin and end their travels there, by virtue of it being the biggest city in the U.S., we have a lot of trips starting and ending at the early and late hours. That’s what I was told.

LAX has the same problem. Lots of O&D traffic, on the edge of the country. Therefore, lots of early departures and late inbounds. Hence, a lot of poor commutability.

Why can’t those early departures be flown by guys laying over in hotels, who just have to shower and show up in the lobby as opposed to driving hours or commuting in on the own time and sleeping on their own dime?

I argued this very point to Bob Smeltzer. Why not have a larger pilot base of said aircraft in ATL, MSP or SEA (where people actually live). Have flights layover in NYC or LA, pay for the added hotel costs, but reduce sick calls and missed j/s’s—especially when weather messes up NYC, and decrease training costs (around $50k a type rating) associated with people jumping off equipment at the first opportunity (NYC 717 or MadDog back in the day). With this, you’d have pilots in place when IROPS occur, thus increasing reliability, while reducing (overall) cost metrics.

But alas, I’m just a pilot. Not management. What would I know?


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The NYC commutability thing has been addressed before. The most recent I remember had to do with non NYC pilots flying international trips. In other words “why is ATL flying JFK-XYZ?” CR presented a lot of data about commuters including the distance of their commute and how that affects the operation when there is weather etc.

Along those same lines and I honesty don’t remember if it was in print or the dude from scheduling who used to come down to the lounge for briefings, but the gist was that they did not want pilots trying to commute in to NYC for late morning departures. (At least a in large numbers)

Of course that doesn’t explain the trips that aren’t commutable on either end..

I have to believe a minimum day would be a barrier to improving NYC commutability. I'm not for or against it myself (I think there's good and bad, but I don't commute)...I just hope those who want a min calendar day are going in to that discussion with eyes wide open.

until they having a problem filling the slots in NYC it will always be this way. They truly wouldn’t care if the NYC Capt positions had to be filled in new hire classes as long as they get filled.

How detailed was your argument? I believe you said you were in management in a former life in another industry. You already know that in the corporate world you have to present a comprehensive Feasibility Report complete with data to analyticaly make your case. If you have the PowerPoint feel free to post the link. Thanks.

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