Pilots bad. Pilots greedy. Union bad.
04-03-2020, 06:57 PM
#111
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Well, not that anyone needs to be fair when trying to make arguments but,....
One of the programs is for personnel safety(increased likelyhood of death), and the other is a voluntary program to save money for the company and take time off with pay for the employee.
Personally, I dont see the 2 programs as the same. But sure, got my pitchfork and molotov cocktails ready.
One of the programs is for personnel safety(increased likelyhood of death), and the other is a voluntary program to save money for the company and take time off with pay for the employee.
Personally, I dont see the 2 programs as the same. But sure, got my pitchfork and molotov cocktails ready.
04-03-2020, 07:21 PM
#112
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by Iceberg
I think there are certain high risk pilots or pilots with high risk family members that would have jumped on a SIL to avoid exposure just the same as these FAs are now able. Doesn’t seem so dissimilar to me.
I'm not falling on my sword over this one way or another, just pointing out some plausible differences. If a pilot is seriously concerned at being high risk....call in sick. In these trying time I don't think that would be abuse.
04-03-2020, 07:36 PM
#113
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 899
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Agree, but with the pilot sick leave of 240-270 hrs that is about 4 months at 65 hours. FA sick leave policy is horrible in comparison(don't have specific numbers....someone can chime in)
I'm not falling on my sword over this one way or another, just pointing out some plausible differences. If a pilot is seriously concerned at being high risk....call in sick. In these trying time I don't think that would be abuse.
I'm not falling on my sword over this one way or another, just pointing out some plausible differences. If a pilot is seriously concerned at being high risk....call in sick. In these trying time I don't think that would be abuse.
04-03-2020, 07:37 PM
#114
Rerouted On Weekends
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 717A
Posts: 2,937
Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
Who has that kind of sick leave? I bet half the list has less than 200 hours. And what if you already used a bunch of leave?
04-04-2020, 04:27 AM
#115
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Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,504
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Agree, but with the pilot sick leave of 240-270 hrs that is about 4 months at 65 hours. FA sick leave policy is horrible in comparison(don't have specific numbers....someone can chime in)
I'm not falling on my sword over this one way or another, just pointing out some plausible differences. If a pilot is seriously concerned at being high risk....call in sick. In these trying time I don't think that would be abuse.
I'm not falling on my sword over this one way or another, just pointing out some plausible differences. If a pilot is seriously concerned at being high risk....call in sick. In these trying time I don't think that would be abuse.
04-04-2020, 05:35 AM
#116
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by fishforfun
Again, pilots have come here asking about this exact scenario because their claims were denied and others told them to call in sick. The company apologizers took no time jumping on that idea as “fraud” of the sick system. So you may see it as logical but many do not.
Therein lies the problem with forums in general and my compulsive need to push back. On one hand, there are esoteric arguments that are extolled from the rarefied air of one's 2nd story den vs the real world on the other.
In the example of the sick leave, yea it may be abuse of "the sick leave policy as written" and if everybody did it Delta would cease to exist. On the other hand, if someone lives with high risk individuals or psychologically can't cope then a real world solution is call in sick.
No matter how one slices and dices, how much we want to compare, pilot sick leave is (in toto) light years ahead of the FA sick leave policy.(even if "half the pilot group doesn't have that much sick leave")
04-04-2020, 06:00 AM
#117
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by Mesabah
Buybacks reduce the number of outstanding shares in order to increase the value of remaining shares. That's the theory, but in practice that's not what actually happens. When companies have enough excess capital to buyback shares, they are almost always at peak price performance. What they are in reality is management supporting prices amid the vesting period of their options, and to a lessor extent, preventing dilution in the process.
04-04-2020, 06:05 AM
#118
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Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,504
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
I totally get it.
Therein lies the problem with forums in general and my compulsive need to push back. On one hand, there are esoteric arguments that are extolled from the rarefied air of one's 2nd story den vs the real world on the other.
In the example of the sick leave, yea it may be abuse of "the sick leave policy as written" and if everybody did it Delta would cease to exist. On the other hand, if someone lives with high risk individuals or psychologically can't cope then a real world solution is call in sick.
No matter how one slices and dices, how much we want to compare, pilot sick leave is (in toto) light years ahead of the FA sick leave policy.(even if "half the pilot group doesn't have that much sick leave")
Therein lies the problem with forums in general and my compulsive need to push back. On one hand, there are esoteric arguments that are extolled from the rarefied air of one's 2nd story den vs the real world on the other.
In the example of the sick leave, yea it may be abuse of "the sick leave policy as written" and if everybody did it Delta would cease to exist. On the other hand, if someone lives with high risk individuals or psychologically can't cope then a real world solution is call in sick.
No matter how one slices and dices, how much we want to compare, pilot sick leave is (in toto) light years ahead of the FA sick leave policy.(even if "half the pilot group doesn't have that much sick leave")
The point is that we have a LOA that clearly states what is allowed for PILOTS facing illness or in a high risk situation. Keep your deals.
When in a hole, stop digging. The SIL debacle put the company in a goodwill “hole.” Why keep digging? Maybe you could pass that on to Ed. Until then, we have a CONTRACT and intend to keep
our deals.
04-04-2020, 06:09 AM
#119
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by fishforfun
I don’t know, nor do I care what the FA sick leave is. I do care what UAL, AA and other pilots sick leave policies are for negotiation sake.
The point is that we have a LOA that clearly states what is allowed for PILOTS facing illness or in a high risk situation. Keep your deals.
When in a hole, stop digging. The SIL debacle put the company in a goodwill “hole.” Why keep digging? Maybe you could pass that on to Ed. Until then, we have a CONTRACT and intend to keep
our deals.
The point is that we have a LOA that clearly states what is allowed for PILOTS facing illness or in a high risk situation. Keep your deals.
When in a hole, stop digging. The SIL debacle put the company in a goodwill “hole.” Why keep digging? Maybe you could pass that on to Ed. Until then, we have a CONTRACT and intend to keep
our deals.
BTW, how's the view from your 2nd story den?
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