beis77

Amen.

The irony is that a lot of pilots would not have had an issue with ALV reductions at the front end of all of this along with the SILs. But the way management handled the SILs was a complete slap in the face. The subsequent memos have only strengthened union support and resolve by alienating pilots. Granted, management has a job to do and that includes cutting costs in all manner possible. I’m not sure why in practicality that meant withdrawing the SILs? I agree with the reasons presented here, they did it to placate others as presented in the most recent memo (“not in line with what other divisions have provided”). In this environment, they need to cut all costs wherever they can, no matter how big/small. $50M in savings (SILs) may only be one day of flying, but it’s still $50M in reductions. A little here and there adds up. Blowing it off as insignificant is mind blowing. If the previously agreed upon SILs aren’t enough, then offer more SILs... And fix scheduling while they’re at, we’re hemorrhaging money with our flying right now.

As for concessions, I agree with the MEC. We should look for win-win cost savings with the company, not concessions. It’s unrealistic to stiff arm the company at this point; we are in this together and have a vested interest in Delta’s survival. But management’s approach seems to be very much “my way or the highway”. Albeit not very popular, that approach works well with non-union employees; not so much with a CBA. They want to treat us separate from non-cons when it works to their benefit (pay raises), and treat us the same when it comes to pay cuts. I’m with the MEC on this, we should look for win-win cost savings where we can, otherwise fulfill the CBA, no concessions.

I find it interesting that management says they want to “find real solutions to the very real circumstances we find ourselves in” and that the “company stands ready to meet with ALPA leadership to discuss ideas for temporary changes that are simple, shared and significant.” Yet based on the MEC webinar, it sounds as though the company is ignoring the MEC’s proposals for win-win cost savings measures, and is only interested in its own pre-approved cost savings measures. When the company is truly ready for a negotiation, then hopefully the union and company can agree to some win-wins that help get us all through this nightmare. Until then, I’ll just keep flying ALV and prep/save up for furlough this fall.

As for the doom and gloomers on here... is full liquidation a possibility? Anything is possible, but I’d venture to guess it’s unlikely. Granted, if the worst case scenarios are accurate, then this could play out to be much worse than 911. Having said that, we were well positioned going into this, certainly better than our competitors (with the exception of SWA). We all went into this in a raging bull market with billions in profits, unlike 911, where we had already been in a bear market after the dot com crash in 2000. 911 was simply the nail in the coffin so to speak.

Bottom line, I like our odds, especially compared to the other legacies. And the reality is, if we do go belly up, then that means the other legacies will have already folded as well by then. Considering the airlines are being treated as a utility by the government (hence the bail out), I can’t see a scenario where this Administration and Congress let all the majors fold (there’s always room for another bail out/stimulus package). Chapter 11 is a very real possibility. Going completely out of business is not IMO. I could be wrong obviously, but too much of our global economy and our economic recovery is directly tied to air travel: logistics, business, recreation, government etc.

fishforfun

Still curious what this means. But I don’t know what prolly is so maybe that’s why don’t I get it.

Buck Rogers

Sorry FishforFun. Thought I had posted this previously, must not have hit submit. This was from a post earlier. Meant in jest I have to put this in as a disclaimer so guys with a stick up their bung don't go beserk.

Denny Crane

beis77,

I like your relative optimism. Not sure I agree with your opinion Delta was/is in the best position to survive out of the big 3. I’d like to know how much liquidity each carrier has now after lines of credit etc have been drawn...Way back when....we were considered the “prettiest pig in an ugly litter.” And we came very close to liquidating.

Not to be a doom and gloomer but if Delta doesn’t file for any of the loan guarantees from the Feds and AA/UAL do, it will be interesting to see who ends up surviving and who doesn’t.......I suspect it will be very hard for Delta, or any airline, to get financing of any kind any time soon. Not saying impossible but certainly not favorable....

Denny

PilotWombat

Like most "business over people"/ "rich over poor"/ "the New Deal was bad" style politics, you can thank Reagan (and those he empowered) for that.

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/2/1763976...mp-republicans

beis77

I hear ya Denny. I really hope all the legacies make it through this; the Fed loans could be the game changer for whoever does/does not take them.

Absolute worst case scenario (IMHO), if all the legacies take a dive, I suspect the government would end up subsidizing at least one of the majors. And assuming it’s us, we’d just end up looking a lot more like Amtrak than the Delta we know today. I can’t see a scenario where there isn’t at least one major pax carrier emerging from this. Government subsidies is a possibility; heck they’re already trending that way by wanting stakes for the Fed loans.

All that said, it’s still too early to tell (IMO) how this will all play out, however I do think Delta will stay upright through this. I’m not sure how big, but I don’t see us going belly up. I hope I’m right (fingers crossed).

LEROY JENKINS

I'm still debating if JL's letter was designed to be divisive and insulting or just incredibly tone deaf. I imagine it and the their meeting had to be somewhat confusing. Our MEC's response has been pretty spot on, but I'm wondering if a very public counter-offer would provide strategic insight into management's plan and leverage. My counter-offer:

3 months ALV relief in return for:
- 2 year furlough protection that has a 90 hr/month pay clawback for all pilots if broken. Funds would be secured in an escrow account using a title of a parked A330 or A350.
- All pilots elligible for furlough pay.

I doubt management would ever agree to it, but I'd love to see them squirm in response as its a reasonable ask. Opinions?

Funk

ALV relief in exchange for cap on executive compensation and all buybacks for duration of any furlough and/or anytime CBA is beyond amendable date.

Gunfighter

Might as well be the title to a unicorn. Those were leveraged last week as we rushed to the capital markets for funding ahead of the govt bailout. We would be in second lien position or worse. Our best bet is a cash only policy. We have too much skin in the game already. Being a creditor to Delta is a financial mistake. The best thing we can do is spend our time on reserve executing a backup plan.

GogglesPisano

I agree. We each need to maximize our income and savings right now. If the most recent Chairman’s Letter is accurate an ALV reduction will only buy a few days of black ink.

There’s nothing we can do that would facilitate an appreciable cost-savings. This is a revenue problem. May as well make as much coin as possible on the way to the displacement/furlough line. If the last experience with C11 taught us anything any sacrifices now will be forgotten and any agreements now will be shredded.

Our future is in the paws of lab rats and politicians.