MEC Early Out Comm
05-13-2020 | 10:22 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 1
You just seem a to take a little glee in mentioning that senior guys won't want to go to school, and frankly, get out of your seat, retire already. BTW, I saw it happen to the PanAm guys in going from 727 to A310, and it was sad to watch them end their career like that. Show a little respect and empathy, junior. TIC.
There is no "glee" in any of this. Only reality. And that is the company doesnt need or have to offer us anything in dealing with what they see as necessary for survival.
our pwa already equips mgmt with all the tools needed. For pilots this is personal.
For management.....it is just business.
05-13-2020 | 11:01 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 168
From: window seat
I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say, but the little bit I can figure out is that you feel differently about how we got to where we are. That’s cool. We both get an opinion.
I’m not saying the company, or Ed, or his legions of black-hooded minions of Satan or whatever face people want to put on the guys that sit across the table from DALPA are innocent and blameless. There’s plenty of blame to go around. What I am saying, in my opinion, is that the MECs tough-guy approach has precipitated much of this standoff, and the standoff is unlikely to end. I believe the company will proceed, at their own pace, with their plan for cost savings, without engaging the MEC any more than is absolutely necessary. And that is and will be a failure on both sides.
You demand me to ‘propose exactly what we should do’. I can’t say exactly because I don’t know. I do think that, as a general idea, both sides could gain a lot by softening their stance and resuming negotiations. If this brings about mutual gains, it’s a win. Like Michael Corleone said, it’s nothing personal. It’s just business.
I’m not saying the company, or Ed, or his legions of black-hooded minions of Satan or whatever face people want to put on the guys that sit across the table from DALPA are innocent and blameless. There’s plenty of blame to go around. What I am saying, in my opinion, is that the MECs tough-guy approach has precipitated much of this standoff, and the standoff is unlikely to end. I believe the company will proceed, at their own pace, with their plan for cost savings, without engaging the MEC any more than is absolutely necessary. And that is and will be a failure on both sides.
You demand me to ‘propose exactly what we should do’. I can’t say exactly because I don’t know. I do think that, as a general idea, both sides could gain a lot by softening their stance and resuming negotiations. If this brings about mutual gains, it’s a win. Like Michael Corleone said, it’s nothing personal. It’s just business.
We went above and beyond what we agreed WRT the VB's for timeline, and they wouldn't even keep up with their end to give us a heads up so we pulled it down. Because of that, you imply they got back at us by turning down 8-9 figure savings to stick it to us by paying us more money for the same amount of flying.
Furthermore we continue to engage in cost savings opportunities only to be told no. Gee maybe we should have went for those VB's?
05-13-2020 | 11:51 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 86
At the risk of this being labeled a ‘rant’, I’ll give my opinion.
Years ago, when SILs were historically 55 hours, the company proposed they be reduced to 40 hours. The company informed our MEC scheduling chairman of this. He proceeded to tell the MEC chairman this, as was his duty - ‘the scheduling committee chairman ‘acts at the direction of the MEC’. No direction was given. The MEC chairman did nothing, and made no attempt to renegotiate the amount. When the information was made public some time later it caused an uproar, and the MEC chairman, desperate to deflect the criticism of inaction, promptly fired the scheduling chairman, ie shot the messenger. This behavior caused a mass walkout by some 12 SMEs, and a lot of red faces in the MEC.
Fast forward to the VB debacle. These were pulled down by the Association, some say punitively, in retaliation for the SIL embarrassment.
We arrive at the latest SIL deal/no deal, withdrawn by the company, I believe punitively, for actions by the MEC including the VB pulldown.
Neither side is innocent, but I believe our Association fired the first shot, and has since maintained a confrontational, pugnacious and largely ineffectual stance, discouraging the company from attempting any dialog. Our MEC chooses to produce newsletters bemoaning the lack of cooperation by the company in lieu of getting results.
You asked how I think the company handled it. I think they handled it badly, stooping to the tit-for-tat pettiness that is the hallmark of this MEC administration. They’re better than that (and we are too) and I was and am disappointed.
My opinion, however the lack of progress is a fact.
Years ago, when SILs were historically 55 hours, the company proposed they be reduced to 40 hours. The company informed our MEC scheduling chairman of this. He proceeded to tell the MEC chairman this, as was his duty - ‘the scheduling committee chairman ‘acts at the direction of the MEC’. No direction was given. The MEC chairman did nothing, and made no attempt to renegotiate the amount. When the information was made public some time later it caused an uproar, and the MEC chairman, desperate to deflect the criticism of inaction, promptly fired the scheduling chairman, ie shot the messenger. This behavior caused a mass walkout by some 12 SMEs, and a lot of red faces in the MEC.
Fast forward to the VB debacle. These were pulled down by the Association, some say punitively, in retaliation for the SIL embarrassment.
We arrive at the latest SIL deal/no deal, withdrawn by the company, I believe punitively, for actions by the MEC including the VB pulldown.
Neither side is innocent, but I believe our Association fired the first shot, and has since maintained a confrontational, pugnacious and largely ineffectual stance, discouraging the company from attempting any dialog. Our MEC chooses to produce newsletters bemoaning the lack of cooperation by the company in lieu of getting results.
You asked how I think the company handled it. I think they handled it badly, stooping to the tit-for-tat pettiness that is the hallmark of this MEC administration. They’re better than that (and we are too) and I was and am disappointed.
My opinion, however the lack of progress is a fact.
What it sounds like is someone you flew with or maybe an acquaintance who was angry about it told you and you just regurgitated what they told you.
05-13-2020 | 11:52 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 1
Aborted out of a school that involved a gender type change....no fly for weeks on end only to be told to goback and fly the old equipment.
Ya...us old guys are non hackers.
)
05-13-2020 | 12:34 PM
#95
Really got furloughed
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 663
Likes: 80
From: Gramercy Riffs
Something didn’t seem right here so I went back and read a few council coms on these topics and your entire history is mostly, if not entirely wrong.
What it sounds like is someone you flew with or maybe an acquaintance who was angry about it told you and you just regurgitated what they told you.
What it sounds like is someone you flew with or maybe an acquaintance who was angry about it told you and you just regurgitated what they told you.
Did the SILs get dropped to 40 hours?
Did Bartels act on this?
Did he fire the scheduling committee chairman?
Did 12 or so SMEs quit shortly thereafter?
Did DALPA pull down the VBs?
Did the company withdraw from the modified SIL agreement?
What I stated are facts. The parts where I used conjecture I was clear about saying it was my opinion.
You have to do better than saying ‘you are wrong’.
Again, I regret taking any part in this, because none of us know exactly how all this went down unless we were in the room when it happened, so with a lack of information people, me included, resort to opinions. You have yours, I have mine, based on the few facts we know and our perceptions. I won’t debate opinions.
I really hope the company and DALPA sit down and achieve mutually beneficial gains. It would restore some of my faith in this MEC.
To repeat, I won’t debate opinions. I’m finished with this discussion.
05-13-2020 | 12:35 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Something didn’t seem right here so I went back and read a few council coms on these topics and your entire history is mostly, if not entirely wrong.
What it sounds like is someone you flew with or maybe an acquaintance who was angry about it told you and you just regurgitated what they told you.
What it sounds like is someone you flew with or maybe an acquaintance who was angry about it told you and you just regurgitated what they told you.
05-13-2020 | 01:23 PM
#97
Banned
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,982
Likes: 0
From: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
What happened to "my union speaks for me"?
If you disagree the with MEC, tell them. Maybe get to work and try your hand at it. You also get a vote when that time comes.
I for one am glad we are taking a firm stance with management while simultaneously offering reasonable near and long term solutions.
We have nothing else left to give other than pay cuts. We are going to furlough. Why give concessions now when we absolutely know whats coming in Oct 2020.
05-13-2020 | 01:39 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Cool they divided us already. win for them.
What happened to "my union speaks for me"?
If you disagree the with MEC, tell them. Maybe get to work and try your hand at it. You also get a vote when that time comes.
I for one am glad we are taking a firm stance with management while simultaneously offering reasonable near and long term solutions.
We have nothing else left to give other than pay cuts. We are going to furlough. Why give concessions now when we absolutely know whats coming in Oct 2020.
What happened to "my union speaks for me"?
If you disagree the with MEC, tell them. Maybe get to work and try your hand at it. You also get a vote when that time comes.
I for one am glad we are taking a firm stance with management while simultaneously offering reasonable near and long term solutions.
We have nothing else left to give other than pay cuts. We are going to furlough. Why give concessions now when we absolutely know whats coming in Oct 2020.
05-13-2020 | 02:41 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
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