Soooooo the impression you have given me with your last few posts is that we need a deal, any deal. It doesn’t matter what is in that deal because, well, we need a deal to make “progress.”

You think the reason there is no deal is because of the intransigence of the MEC. I, on the other hand, think we don’t have a deal because of the intransigence of Management and singular goal of trying to prevent FA unionization.

There was a time when the “you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” idea worked. I was a fan of it. The problem is that that ideal morphed into a one-sided deal in Managements favor.

If you’ve been here 20 years then you were around for contract 2001 and 9/11. Answer this for me. How long did it take after 9/11 until concessions were negotiated with the company? I believe it was letter 46. What kind of MEC did we have then?

It takes two to tango. Management is not willing to get on the dance floor. Until they do, I stand behind this MEC 100%.

Denny

 

Am i reading that right...3000+ retirements in 30 months? And about 5000 in 42 months?

Why do anything to expedite retirements

 

Of course they are not “selfless or philanthropic.” We are not a charity.

Or maybe, just maybe it’s because the Company just doesn’t want to because of reasons that others have proposed.

The same can be said about how management is dealing with the pilots.

First, I’m glad you did comment. I obviously disagree with you but that’s what debate is all about. Frankly, I think the relationship has deteriorated because of both sides being more intransigent. Who knows how it got started. But, in the current situation we find ourselves in, I think the Union has been putting out an olive branch and saying “let’s work on this together” but has been rebuffed by the Company. So I’m all for “winding the clock.”

Denny

 

Totally agree, as a guy that might get furlough, I stand behind the MEC 100%.

I saw how management tone changed from one townhall to another. From “we need more from the pilots”, to “the pilots have done their share and were the first ones to help us”.

 

No. If if my posts have given anyone the impression that I think we ‘need a deal, any deal’ let me clear that up now. I firmly believe that no deal is better than a bad deal. I am, though, in favor of mutually beneficial negotiations. The company is hurting. We can help. In the process, we can extract gains. You know, negotiations. Not capitulation! But we can’t even begin negotiations without dialog, and dialog won’t begin until there is a sense that it will be received.

In answer to your contract 2001 question, I was a new hire on probation and unable to vote on it, and in reality so new that I had and have no idea of the makeup of the MEC at that time. Subsequent LOAs and the like occurred during my 4 1/2 year furlough.

Based on your posts, you seem like a rational guy. I respect your decision to stand behind this MEC 100%. I happen to disagree. It’s ok. I totally agree it takes two to tango, but it seems to me that one of the dance partners is pouting in the car because they don’t like the music. We disagree on which one that is. It’s ok.

 

I've tried to always be a 50/50 guy. I always listen to what the Union and Company say before I pick my horse. The company's blatant disregard for being ready for contracts negotiations with us was their first mistake. Making an agreement with us over SILs then backing out was the 2nd strike (the talk about it being because they are scared of an FA Union was a further slap in the face). With what the Union has communicated with us throughout all of this IMO has been totally reasonable in regards to where we stand to help. I'm not looking at this with with a one sided view and neither should anyone else. We ALL want the company to survive, it's up to them if they want to do this with our help or not. The olive branch was extended by us a long time ago and thus far they have thumbed their noses at it. What happens from here on out is in them. I dont care what they says to other employee groups not do I care anymore. I'm willing to help the company survive this but I won't cut my nose off to save face. Right now the MEC is standing firm with reasonable asks, my hope is that the company hits a homerun with the ball we are pitching right down the middle. Let's get this done and figure out the next step.

 

Nice! I agree with you. The problem, as I see it, is the olive branch has been extended any number of times by the MEC (according to all the communications I’ve read) and been rejected by the company. You can not negotiate with yourself......you won’t win. Again, it takes two parties to negotiate.

I’m sorry you got furloughed. I can’t imagine how tough that was. Concessions were not negotiated until letter 46 was signed. I believe that was in the late 2004 or 2005. The point being...it was YEARS not months.

Why hasn’t the Company come out and said they are willing to negotiate but Dalpa is unwilling? The Company is playing their cards very close to the vest and are being very incommunicado. I know we will never change each other’s mind. It’s those on the fence I’m after! But at this point, there probably aren’t many of those! Anyway, have a good night!

Denny

 

Because, in my opinion, the company has chosen not to play the blame game. DALPA seems more than willing to publicly blame the lack of progress on the company. Noise, no results. In my experience, the kid that cries the most to the parents after a fight with their brother is usually the one with the most to hide.

Speaking of results, the word ‘progress’ was used a few times, not by me, but attributed to me. I like the word ‘results’ more. Results are quantifiable, progress is subjective.

Thanks for the civil debate. Like I said, I respect your opinion.
btw, did you ever live in Moab?

 

Wait, but the company has chosen the blame game with the infamous Ed memo that shamed us against the other employee groups for not taking unpaid leaves and other measures.

Did you willfully ignore that?

 

The company has not made a proposal. The union tells us that they put together a comprehensive package. Why was it not outlined in the email? Can’t be anything secret in a ER proposal unless perhaps there were a bunch of expensive strings attached. Without seeing it I have no idea if I should be backing it or not.