You really think that’s the primary organizational identifier? I’d have to say if I saw a resume where someone said they worked for Delta Air Lines Inc and found out they actually worked for Endeavor I’d feel they were being disingenuous to say the least.

I don’t feel that this should be that hard. Give them priority on their own metal fine, but being a Delta retiree is the endgame for all of us. Let’s make it as good a retirement as possible.

Frustration at EDV pilots is misdirected. They didn’t ask for the change and try to stir up trouble, and 99% of them would rather send the jets over to Delta and fly them at mainline. Bring DCI planes home and this isn’t an issue, I’ll bang that drum every day of the week.

To your first. So what? You commute in to make your trip. Period.

I commute to a NE base. It's a pain, especially after we throttled the flights as result of C-19 and most of our rotations there on my equipment are uncommutable on the front and back end. Sometimes I leave a day or 2 early to insure I am in position for the start of the trip. That is my responsibility to my employer. I do have a commuter clause to avail myself to should SHTF, but rarely do I require that option (think I have used it once in 4 years).

If you can't be responsible to be in place for the start of your trip, maybe time to go do something else. Kicking our retirees in the back is not how this is solved. You being disciplined and professional is. If its on DAL metal, they should have S3A. Nothing less.

To your second statement. It has nothing to do with pass priority. A vindictive comment on your part.

You misunderstand how commuting works, you cant predict what the flight loads will be the next morning. If you wanna come in two days early thats on you, but no one except you does that.

Second, there's no one in nyc to cover said pilot who at 8am (his second shot to work) the 12pm or 1pm start. That flight is cancelled, as are his next 2-4. 30 - 50 times every morning delta was going to have to cancel 1-4 flights per pilot.

I dont know why you keep reducing this down to incorrect simplicity. If the EDV pilot doesn't get to NYC at the time this change was made, you'd cancel 3, flights at a minimum. Delta, at the time, had already tried pushing the flight onto other contract carriers. Air wisconsin refused and cancelled their delta contract under Delta pressure as a FOAD move. No other contract carrier would touch the flying without an exorbitant fee.

Delta made a business decision. EDV pilots didnt even ask for it. The only way you can blame them is if you go back in time years to when edv was placed as S3b (Pinnacle days? Pre edv). Edv alpa union was trying to leverage delta to pay edv more so guys could afford to live in nyc, they weren't begging for s3a.

EDV guy here. My sentiments exactly. For context our pilot group never asked for or advocated for any increase in priority. This was purely a decision our management and Delta management came to on their own when they were sick of paying for positive space. Please direct your anger accordingly. Many of us break our backs to serve Delta and hope to earn a spot at mainline someday. There’s certainly an opportunity here for a “win win” scenario where we can all be untied in a fight to be on the same seniority list as opposed to an “us vs them” mentality.

Bingo. You guys are ALPA pilots flying delta pax, I hope one day it’s on our DAL list and contract feed is a thing of the past.

Ha, you really said that. I've been commuter my life in the regionals (to NYC) and as a Delta Pilot (ATL, LAX and NYC). I pretty well understand how commuting works. Further, desptie what you said, it is your responsibility to be in position for the start of your trip. Its in the FOM. Your CP will tell you that a thousand times during your probationary meetings. That never goes away. They don't care where you live. All they care about is that you be there for the start of your trip. Simple. Up to you to figure that out. You can be a responsible adult, or play a childs game.

This sounds like a manning problem to me. Why doesn't/didn't EDV staff reserves properly? Trying to get by on a razors margin perhaps to save a few cost bleems? Who was running EDV at the time this went down?

Yes I distill this down to simple fact. EDV pilots don't work for DAL. Our retirees should ALWAYS enjoy a higher priority for non-rev over non-Delta employees when traveling on our aircraft. I think we can get it.

I don’t see frustration at EDV pilots or even at them getting higher priority to get to and from work. I understand the frustration with them and their families getting higher priority to nonrev on Delta while NOT going to and from work.

Denny

So what's the solution? The EDV employee gets S3A, their spouse and dependents get S3B unless traveling with the employee in which case they get bumped up to S3A? That would make the most sense and be the easiest to implement. It's already how we are with parent travel at mainline where the parent with the employee gets bumped up to S3. Most employees traveling by themselves would be going to/from work so there wouldn't really be a need for actual verification each and every time they traveled.

I think most of us agree S3A to work only for the EDV employee.

Otherwise its S3B for them and their sig others and dependents. Sig others and dependents never get more than S3B on Delta metal, period.

I think that would work since the issue it seems from the EDV stand point is commuting in to work and cancelling flights. Although I think that is solved by proper staffing and people being responsible commuters.