New Hire Class Drops
10-07-2021, 05:21 PM
#501
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by Wolf424
Glad all your vast experience at Delta is being put to good use, and you’ve determined the 717 isn’t a great choice.
Couple notes on your assumptions.
Don’t assume anything. Just because you think you should be able to bid to the base you want, doesn’t mean you will for certain. Learn the phrase “we didn’t think they would do that”. Lots of guys assumed when they bid to the 320 that they’d be Boston based by now. A lot of 220 guys in SLC thought they’d have much better seniority in the long term until SEA opened.
The 73N bid packet is arguably worse or equivalent to the 717. All the NB fleets are picking up the old maddog routes (By my quick glance, didn’t look at the 320). You think all those sweet transcons and resort all inclusive are going to drop to your level of seniority? Another rule to learn…don’t bid aircraft based on layovers.
320 is obviously growing. 737 is getting a few extra “gently used” aircraft. JL just said that the 717 is going to be around a lot longer than some people think (and it’s consolidating to mostly ATL, much bigger than it was pre covid when there was a MSP and NYC, in addition to DTW and ATL).
If you live in ATL, you’ll be spending that 1K on a crash pad, taxis, hotels, metro passes, etc. Add up the additional time away from home…there’s a lot more to consider than “an extra 1,000”. Much cheaper to be an ATL commuter than an NYC commuter.
There’s a reason it’s going senior and guys are taking the bird in the hand, knowing they will be in ATL. (If that’s what they want) Plus, lots of extra pilots means lots of extra reserves available, which means more pay to do less.
Bottom line, be careful about the “blind leading the blind”. I don’t think you’re being nefarious in giving your advice, but there’s so much abnormal stuff going on with regards to our still open AEs, I wouldn’t assume anything.
Couple notes on your assumptions.
Don’t assume anything. Just because you think you should be able to bid to the base you want, doesn’t mean you will for certain. Learn the phrase “we didn’t think they would do that”. Lots of guys assumed when they bid to the 320 that they’d be Boston based by now. A lot of 220 guys in SLC thought they’d have much better seniority in the long term until SEA opened.
The 73N bid packet is arguably worse or equivalent to the 717. All the NB fleets are picking up the old maddog routes (By my quick glance, didn’t look at the 320). You think all those sweet transcons and resort all inclusive are going to drop to your level of seniority? Another rule to learn…don’t bid aircraft based on layovers.
320 is obviously growing. 737 is getting a few extra “gently used” aircraft. JL just said that the 717 is going to be around a lot longer than some people think (and it’s consolidating to mostly ATL, much bigger than it was pre covid when there was a MSP and NYC, in addition to DTW and ATL).
If you live in ATL, you’ll be spending that 1K on a crash pad, taxis, hotels, metro passes, etc. Add up the additional time away from home…there’s a lot more to consider than “an extra 1,000”. Much cheaper to be an ATL commuter than an NYC commuter.
There’s a reason it’s going senior and guys are taking the bird in the hand, knowing they will be in ATL. (If that’s what they want) Plus, lots of extra pilots means lots of extra reserves available, which means more pay to do less.
Bottom line, be careful about the “blind leading the blind”. I don’t think you’re being nefarious in giving your advice, but there’s so much abnormal stuff going on with regards to our still open AEs, I wouldn’t assume anything.
paying seat in the company just to be in base is an ok strategy, but there is a better one if you can handle NYC for a few months.
10-07-2021, 05:42 PM
#502
Has a furrowed brow
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,160
Originally Posted by flyinthrew
That is all entirely valid and fair, to include the point that I’m licking the windows at the bottom of the list with everyone else. I’m simply giving another viewpoint that I think is at least valid. I think that unless the music stops again that bidding the lowest
paying seat in the company just to be in base is an ok strategy, but there is a better one if you can handle NYC for a few months.
paying seat in the company just to be in base is an ok strategy, but there is a better one if you can handle NYC for a few months.
You seem to be motivated by money. That’s fine.
But many value QoL.
And that extra $1k is 8 additional hours on a 717. So a day and a half of pay? Are you going to spend an an extra day and a half away from home by commuting to/from NYC over the course of a month to a higher paying category? Or could you pick up two WS (or 1 GS) 1 day trip where you’re home by dinner (common on the 717 back when I was on it) and make more than that NYC guy?
To all the new guys…welcome. Don’t let the pay chart be the end-all-be-all in your calculus. Do some research and talk to guys who’ve been around. There are ways to make money above the baseline if that’s your motivation. But it’s difficult to increase your QoL from the baseline.
Everyone’s situation is different.
(And if you knew our PWA, you’d know that the 717 is not the lowest paying seat in the company
)
10-07-2021, 06:07 PM
#503
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by Wolf424
You seem to be motivated by money. That’s fine.
But many value QoL.
And that extra $1k is 8 additional hours on a 717. So a day and a half of pay? Are you going to spend an an extra day and a half away from home by commuting to/from NYC over the course of a month to a higher paying category? Or could you pick up two WS (or 1 GS) 1 day trip where you’re home by dinner (common on the 717 back when I was on it) and make more than that NYC guy?
To all the new guys…welcome. Don’t let the pay chart be the end-all-be-all in your calculus. Do some research and talk to guys who’ve been around. There are ways to make money above the baseline if that’s your motivation. But it’s difficult to increase your QoL from the baseline.
Everyone’s situation is different.
But many value QoL.
And that extra $1k is 8 additional hours on a 717. So a day and a half of pay? Are you going to spend an an extra day and a half away from home by commuting to/from NYC over the course of a month to a higher paying category? Or could you pick up two WS (or 1 GS) 1 day trip where you’re home by dinner (common on the 717 back when I was on it) and make more than that NYC guy?
To all the new guys…welcome. Don’t let the pay chart be the end-all-be-all in your calculus. Do some research and talk to guys who’ve been around. There are ways to make money above the baseline if that’s your motivation. But it’s difficult to increase your QoL from the baseline.
Everyone’s situation is different.
Everyone is different, I flew with a guy who couldn’t even fathom commuting for a month or two and moved because of it (this was at my regional). I’ve flown with those who would do it for a little while but eventually need to move to a base, and yet others commute for 30+ years and seem happy with it. if you fall into the first group and ATL is where you live take the 717, if you feel more like the second or third and want some variety in your flying, going to NYC on the 73 or 320 might make more sense. If you can’t stand red eyes or time zone changes then i would look at the 717 in either base.
good part of this job is we can all find our niche
Originally Posted by Wolf424
(And if you knew our PWA, you’d know that the 717 is not the lowest paying seat in the company )
)
10-07-2021, 07:51 PM
#505
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,975
Originally Posted by Wolf424
I never said it would cost $1K to commute. I also commuted to NY for a time. I only said that there’s additional costs he wasn’t considering. Narrows that 1k gap quick.
There are more costs. But everything has a cost benefit analysis that can change per person
10-08-2021, 03:35 AM
#508
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 199
Originally Posted by flyinthrew
That is all entirely valid and fair, to include the point that I’m licking the windows at the bottom of the list with everyone else. I’m simply giving another viewpoint that I think is at least valid. I think that unless the music stops again that bidding the lowest
paying seat in the company just to be in base is an ok strategy, but there is a better one if you can handle NYC for a few months.
paying seat in the company just to be in base is an ok strategy, but there is a better one if you can handle NYC for a few months.
10-08-2021, 05:09 AM
#509
Has a furrowed brow
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,160
Originally Posted by AlphaBeta
A huge positive for ppl contemplating the 717 is the fact there is only 2 bases and most likely going down to 1 base, ATL. For junior folks, you are only covering a limited amount of trips. On the other aircraft you can and will be called out for trips all around the system. Your life on the 717 will be very consistent and better able to plan your reserve days.
Great point.
As a former 717 guy, I always felt like the 717 got a bad rap, and it was almost exclusively from people who had never flown it.
10-08-2021, 05:49 AM
#510
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,261
Originally Posted by Wolf424
I never said it would cost $1K to commute. I also commuted to NY for a time. I only said that there’s additional costs he wasn’t considering. Narrows that 1k gap quick.
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