Cool that you get to type those naughty words though, Rick. (Don't ban me, just poking at you).

Thanks for the info.

See, just quoting you posting those naughty words got me nabbed by the bot. And the problem is that once a post is put in jail, it doesn't get approved for a day or two, and it's lost in the scroll as the thread has moved 3 pages forward. You guys should reconsider this.

Cool that you get to type those naughty words though, Rick. "Free speech for me but not for thee?" (Don't ban me, just poking at you).

Thanks for the info.

[See, just quoting you posting those naughty words got me nabbed by the bot. And the problem is that once a post is put in jail, it doesn't get approved for a day or two, and it's lost in the scroll as the thread has moved 3 pages forward. You guys should reconsider this misguided and heavy handed policy or just make the bot redact them like curse words are].

I need an RLA expert to help answer a question I was thinking about. (SWA Lewbronski are you lurking?) At what point do the company’s actions become their version of self help? For the company “Self-Help includes the right to unilaterally impose changes to the Contract, or ….” I think the argument could be made that they are doing just that.

Can self-help exist when outside of negotiations, or is the grievance process our only remedy?

I want to make sure I’m clear in that I am NOT calling for any form of work action. I’m merely asking what tools are available for ALPA to combat a management team that seems to want to push every button. We saw management get too aggressive with their customers and the aggressive response from the customers was enough to have management change course. How aggressive can ALPA be within the RLA guidelines.


Just a thought of where we could go as this seems to be escalating.

Our association - DALPA - is our representation of matters to the company. The only way this works out is clear concise messaging and legal actions buttressed by a unified pilot group. My question as stated before; is DH the man to lead us through this intensifying storm or is he just another MEC chair gunning for a job on the 4th. I' guess we'll see after the special meeting this week.

The short answer is basically never.

There is a built in dispute resolution process in the PWA, and as long as they are “complying” with that, no judge is going to touch any legal action ALPA takes outside of the process. It really doesn’t matter how many disputes there are, as long as they can possibly make an argument. It would really take something like “we are replacing the agreed upon pay tables with these new ones that are 10% less” to get outside action to stick.

That makes sense, and it’s kinda what I thought.

bugman is right. The RLA was written to protect management and the consumers, not labor. The only thing alpa could do is file a federal lawsuit against Delta as a "major dispute" and roll the dice in the 11th Circuit, a very conservative district. They won't win.

Unity is the answer. As said above, the customers had a meltdown and the company backpedaled on the SkyMiles thing. When NPS scores plummet because pilots are no longer going that extra mile with pa announcements and "moments that surprise and delight" maybe they'll see their error here too.

I really don't think DH has it in him to unify this pilot group, much less the MEC. He took this job because he wanted to see his name on the marquee and grab as much easy cash as he could at the end of his career, not because he wanted to do the work. He's just a puppet of the previous weak MEC chair who is doing his best to walk in the footsteps of his hero, Lee Moak. The weak majority of the MEC doesn't see a problem and wouldn't want to upset the apple cart and this great scam they have going here. That makes them complicit. Their weakness enabled RG's rise to power and his reign of terror in the first place.

tl:dr alpa is weak and useless and it's going to be up to the pilot to unify and say enough is enough.

Thats a lot of bitterness. Not defending DALPA right now, but when can I expect to see your name as a candidate?

When can we see your name as a candidate? See, I can do that too. Weak debate tactic. Oldest in the book. You don't have the right to complain unless you throw your hat in the ring, right?

As for me? Never. It would be a waste of time as long as the weak weasels have a majority and the 5000+ junior pilots who think this is better than the hellhole regional or ULCC they just left will keep voting them in.

In all honesty, I'm not bitter. I quietly did my job, and even did a job the company values highly, beyond line flying. Some would say I was a company man. But I've reached my breaking point with management's abuse and DALPA's weakness. I think many pilots here feel the same way. It's time we stood up and said enough is enough.

If you don't agree and just see this as bitterness, then you're probably part of the problem.

Oh it’s bitterness especially when you blame other people for your problems and do nothing to fix it.

Blaming junior pilots for the current administration is ill founded too. Again blaming other people for your inaction. Must be their fault for Moak too? Oh wait, the majority of them weren’t even in the airline industry yet.