180ToAJ

I think you make good points and have offered a different perspective. You are right, we never know their number, but I know this cost increase would be accounted for in it.
If it passes, they may be open about the cost increase in negotiations. Or, it becomes another line on a spreadsheet we will never see for something most people didn’t really want. We may never know how it impacts us.

sailingfun

I don't know about SWA and AA but United's disabilty program is junk compared to ours.

24-H-3 Amount of Benefit

For disability dates on or after September 29, 2023, the amount of the monthly LTD benefit (determined before offsets) is equal to forty-two and three-quarter (42.75) hours (50% of 1026 annual hours divided by twelve months) times the blended rate the Pilot is earning for flight hours as of the disability date, with the monthly benefit not to exceed the amounts set forth in the chart below, except as otherwise provided in this subsection . Benefits are paid monthly in arrears.

Currently capped at 14,300 a month and to qualify for any disability at UAL you must enroll and pay a significant premium. It is not fully company funded like Delta. That however is not the worst part. They get zero retirement contributions!

Gone Flying

AA’s plan is 50% FAE (I think that’s calculated high 12/ last 36 like us) with no caps or offsets. I know they get DC as well but I don’t know if it’s 17% of FAE ( essentially 34% DC) or 17% of LTD amount.

they also have the option to pay imputed income taxes and receive LTD payments tax free or not and have it as taxable income

Lerxst

At UA The benefit is indexed to future pay increases, pilots pay 25% of premium, benefit is tax free with no offsets and absolutely gets retirement contributions.

SoloPilot

17% of FAE

Gone Flying

That’s great! Sounds like that would make it industry leading.

let’s hope we can pattern bargain and get rid of our offsets and add the option to pay imputed income tax if we want to make the disability payment tax free.

sailingfun

I have a bit of a vested interest in this section of the UAL plan. Can you provide the contract reference that says disabled pilots continue to get full DC contributions. Here are the only relevant sections I can find.

22-A-2 Eligible Earnings

“Eligible Earnings” for contributions made in accordance with this Agreement shall mean the total cash compensation (determined before deduction for the Pilot's elective deferral contributions, the Pilot's elective contributions pursuant to Section 24-E, or any other pre-tax earnings deferral elections pursuant to a qualified cash or deferred arrangement, cafeteria plan or Section 132(f)(4) transportation fringe benefit plan) paid to him by the Company (whether paid before or after retirement, disability, death, or other termination of employment), with respect to services he performed while classified as a Pilot and performed after becoming a participant in accordance with the terms of the applicable plan: provided, however:

22-A-2-a Eligible Earnings shall not include, for any purpose: (i) contributions to or payments from any other benefit plan; (ii) Company contributions to a benefit plan pursuant to Section 125 of the Internal Revenue Code; (iii) hiring bonuses or other special payments relating to commencement of employment; (iv) moving expenses, relocation allowances, housing allowances; (v) membership costs and dues; (vi) fees paid for employment referrals; (vii) prizes and awards (other than annual awards); (viii) on-time bonus plan payments; (ix) expense reimbursement payments and allowances; (x) furlough pay; (xi) severance pay or other special payments.

24-H-14 Other Benefits While Receiving LTD Benefits

A Pilot receiving LTD benefits shall participate in the Pilot medical (including prescription drug), dental, vision, and life & accident plans with the same benefits and with same cost-sharing offered to Pilots in Active Service. LTD benefits are not considered eligible earnings under any defined contribution plan. However, vacation that is paid to a Pilot in the waiting period or while on LTD is deferrable as an employee contribution into the applicable Pilot defined contribution plan on the same basis as an Active Pilot. A Pilot receiving LTD benefits may participate in Company pass travel programs on the same basis as an Active Pilot. Additional provisions related to Pilots receiving LTD benefits are in Section 24-I-7.

Lerxst

IMPROVED - LTD Plan [24-F-2-a]

• Eliminated exclusion for preexisting conditions for new hires
• Pilot cost share of the plan reduced to 25% (35% today)
• Monthly benefit cap increased and tied to all future pay rate increases
  DOS
  $13,521.40
  Post Snap Up
  $13,656.70

2024

$14,339.63

2025

$14,913.23

2026

$15,509.91

2027

$15,975.14

24-H-3-a

• Pilots will have retirement contributions made to the
  MBCBP equivalent to 2 times the contribution amount on the benefit amount
• Example: For 2024 the retirement contribution amount is 17%.
  The Pilot is at the benefit cap of $14,340. The Pilot will have a
  retirement contribution of (17% x 2) x $14,340 = $4,875.60
• If unable to contribute these amounts to the MBCBP, the equivalent amount will be paid 50/50 cash and PRAP
• Eliminated all offsets (except for United employment)
• Waiting period reduced to 60 days

sailingfun

Thank you, much appreciated! Can that money be placed in the DC plan so the pilot can control it or is it mandatory it goes into the MBCBP?

FITH

I know this has been covered quite a bit, but honestly it never really quite sank in.

However, I just had an experience with a DAL pilot who had 35+ years employed at DAL as a pilot. No furloughs. Retired as a multi-year WB LCA. Yet, he felt as though DALPA stabbed him in the back for not getting two more years at the top of the pay scale. Come again?

This was my first personal experience with someone who holds this view. The selfishness is mind boggling. I do believe that most pilots have an edge of selfishness, myself included; however, this was a level of self-centeredness which would be unbelievable had I not heard the thought process.

I am incredibly grateful age 67 did not pass at this moment, and I greatly hope, it continues to be defeated until far after my retirement unless it is passed with a scientific and rational argument to the betterment of all.