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Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1206453)
I think you need to ask yourself if you can live with our current contract until then
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Originally Posted by APCLurker
(Post 1206455)
What's comical is that we are giving up more scope by giving them a carve out for these jets. Even after the union said scope was not for sale. Allowing Any particular type of aircraft (private vs airline) scope to be given up is unacceptable. Those jets violated our current scope clause, correct? This ta gives them up.
Worse our own union didn't even tell publish if we won the grievance, OR what we received for the violation of our contract. |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1206401)
I don't understand most of your logic.
Explain to me why the RJET exemption affects your career at all. Did you have some expectation to fly Frontier jets or not? I think it's obvious, pilots are irritated seeing their airline send money to CHQ/Shuttle and then on to RAH to help support Frontier, a competitor. I don't think ACL is talking at all about flying Frontier jets. Same with the private jets. Corporate jets = flying without the hassles and crappy services of airlines. We're an airline.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1206401)
Without any ratios, there will be no loss of capacity at DCI to any degree,
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1206401)
With the ratio, mainline must grow by 40 aircraft to meet the minimum ratio.
You said 3.6M block hours and we have 53.9% share or 1,940,400 block hours. That means DCI has the other 46.1% or 1,659,600 hours. They had no less than 600 aircraft when that snap shot was taken in 2011 (I believe?) and so that's 2,766 hours per airplane. 2,766 x 450 airplanes = 1,244,700 block hours for DCI. Multiply that by 1.56 and it's 1,941,732 block hours that must be flown by us. That's a 1,332 hour difference. It's not even a 1/3 of an airplane in growth. That's going off your numbers.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1206401)
So you are concerned about mainline shrinkage and you want to choose the path the ensures the most mainline shrinkage, that does not compute.
Somehow getting 717's at mainline is now a bad thing, please define that. You have no ratio now, so raising the ratio by a large amount is somehow a concession. Explain. On behalf of the customers of Delta Air Lines, the pilots and employees of Delta Air Lines and even those at Delta Connection, he's holding the line. (gotta a feeling Tsquare will want me to explain this in 3... 2... 1...:D)
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1206401)
When do we need to hire if we don't do this deal?
oh wait, is that before work rules change and we need at least 300 fewer pilots? Or we merge? Would we hire in a merger? Or just merge and shrink to profitability? So, it could easily be the very same as it is now, when and only when people retire.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1206401)
I don't know how many times we can debunk this myth about ALV+15. It is just a blip on staffing. Oh well, I guess people want to believe whatever they want to believe.
We're trying to attack this TA, put it through a LOFT, and you're attacking those who attack the TA. |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1206401)
I don't understand most of your logic.
Explain to me why the RJET exemption affects your career at all. Did you have some expectation to fly Frontier jets or not? Profit/loss definition. What do you have problems with? This is industry leading. Private jets? Really. Don't pilots get hired at Delta to get away from that type of flying? 5 aircraft? Seriously, this is almost comical. Without any ratios, there will be no loss of capacity at DCI to any degree, so mainline is directly the accumulator for all losses. With the ratio, mainline must grow by 40 aircraft to meet the minimum ratio. So you are concerned about mainline shrinkage and you want to choose the path the ensures the most mainline shrinkage, that does not compute. Somehow getting 717's at mainline is now a bad thing, please define that. You have no ratio now, so raising the ratio by a large amount is somehow a concession. Explain. You do understand that the ratios continue on even after the amendable date. How do they meet the ratios if they don't have any aircraft to fly? When do we need to hire if we don't do this deal? What will happen to displacements if there is no early out and no transfer of flying from DCI to mainline? I don't know how many times we can debunk this myth about ALV+15. It is just a blip on staffing. Oh well, I guess people want to believe whatever they want to believe. The RLL is a GAIN for pilots. How can you paint this as a concession? If a pilot wants this option, he can take it, if not then he has other options including sitting reserve. You need to explain why this is a concession. Even though our new pay rates are industry leading, you say that is hurting the profession. Explain. Who is setting the rates besides us? Which airlines do we not lead already? You think we can go back to get a new agreement now yet in the future you predict that negotiations will take 3 or 4 years. Which is it? Are we going to take 3 or 4 years in this section 6 and not the next one, or are we going to only take 3 or 4 years in the next one. Maybe you are working at different airline than I have over the last year. At the airline I work at, Chief Pilots are calling pilots about sick leave whenever they feel like it, pilots are complaining loudly. Now there are new restrictions on when the Chief Pilots can call you. This is a concession? Explain. I am sorry but there is pretty much nothing but hand wringing in your post. You complain about airline shrinkage but ignore the fact that this TA has much stronger pilot job protections than we have now. You try to equate your concern about wide body flying shrinking without relating it to some problem in this TA. In fact, this TA has industry leading protections for JV's. You take events that could happen with or without this agreement and somehow equate them to passage of this TA. Somehow, you think living with the old lesser protections will be better than the better (but not good enough in your mind) protections in this TA. That defies logic. My question to you is, all hand wringing aside, what strategic path do you suggest that ends up with a better agreement? This agreement puts about $1 billion more in Delta pilot pockets and ensures a greater percentage of flying goes to mainline. When will you beat that and how? That is the question. Most can see from alfaromeo's posts he is nothing more than a used car salesman and company shill. The angle he puts on each item is annoying at best and dishonest at worst. Just remember, "we are all helpless weaklings and resistance is futile". Has Mr. alfaromeo now convinced you to vote yes with his slanted portrayal of this contract proposal? Slimy. http://www.fatpurple.com/wp-content/...salesman-3.jpg |
Alfa, you are right...the TA is perfect and I don't know how anyone could question ALPA's wisdom and overall awesomeness.
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Originally Posted by Elvis90
(Post 1206473)
Alfa, you are right...the TA is perfect and I don't know how anyone could question ALPA's wisdom and overall awesomeness.
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Originally Posted by Elvis90
(Post 1206473)
Alfa, you are right...the TA is perfect and I don't know how anyone could question ALPA's wisdom and overall awesomeness.
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1206462)
Yes, they violated our scope. We got next to nothing for the grievance either. It's a joke. And it sends a message that violating our scope is ok. We will continue to get Rick rolled by management until someone stops them.
Worse our own union didn't even tell publish if we won the grievance, OR what we received for the violation of our contract. They may sweep more violations under the rug and/or provide back door side letters to "bring management into compliance". You don't want those who left the loopholes in the contract being the gatekeepers. It spells more setbacks for Delta pilots. |
So if the TA is denied and we enter section six, our rates stay the same from 2012 to 2013 and beyond?
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Originally Posted by Elvis90
(Post 1206473)
Alfa, you are right...the TA is perfect and I don't know how anyone could question ALPA's wisdom and overall awesomeness.
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