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Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Old 08-11-2012 | 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by scambo1
Generally, if you have to throw a switch to get a system to perform its job, it is dumbed down (or at least not operating the way the most modern equipment operates). Newer jets do most of the things flight engineers used to do automatically.

The 737 is far from the "dumbest" jet in DALs inventory. However, the overhead panel is mostly manually operated.

There is a benefit from both approaches to jets actually, dumb or smart. It is difficult to transition from the dumbest jets to the smartest jets. It is probably even harder to go from the smartest to the dumbest.

In my case, I am pretty sure I wouldn't choose to fly the DC-9 (our dumbest jet). It would just not be pretty.

In different jets, you prioritize what is important at any given time. In dumb jets, everything is important and needs attention, smart jets tell you what is important freeing the pilot up to concentrate of phase of flight issues.
So I'm guessing the Airbus fleet is more on the "smart" side?

Why did SWA have anything to do with the 737 cockpit being "dumb"?

Now let me just present my opinion, keeping in mind that I am not a pilot yet. When I say I want to be a pilot, I really mean that - I don't want to simply monitor the aircraft computers. I would imagine a pilot flying a DC9, for example, tests one's flying skills more than a pilot flying an A320. (Of course, both pilots have the same skill set to begin with)

Last edited by skylover; 08-11-2012 at 01:44 PM.
Old 08-11-2012 | 01:39 PM
  #107282  
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Originally Posted by skylover
So I'm guessing the Airbus fleet is more on the "smart" side?

Why did SWA have anything to do with the 737 cockpit being "dumb"?
SWA required the cockpit of the NG be able to be flown by the same pilots flying the -200.
Old 08-11-2012 | 01:58 PM
  #107283  
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Originally Posted by skylover

Now let me just present my opinion, keeping in mind that I am not a pilot yet. When I say I want to be a pilot, I really mean that - I don't want to simply monitor the aircraft computers. I would imagine a pilot flying a DC9, for example, tests one's flying skills more than a pilot flying an A320. (Of course, both pilots have the same skill set to begin with)
Several years ago, I stopped keeping track of my flight time at about 12000 hours. There was a time when I thought the same thing you stated. Now, and for quite some time, it isn't about the thrill and competition of flying, it is just about trying to do everything "right" and going home. Testing one's skills is not what it's about, that is the certain sign of an inexperienced pilot. May I recommend you take a look at the career builder section of apc.
Old 08-11-2012 | 02:13 PM
  #107284  
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Originally Posted by skylover
When I say I want to be a pilot, I really mean that - I don't want to simply monitor the aircraft computers.
Understand that being an airline pilot (which is what I assume you intend to be) is about getting the passengers from point A to point B as safely as possible. We spend a lot of time button pushing and monitoring because the automation frees us to more effectively see the big picture, which in turn makes things safer. Obviously we need to keep the fundamentals sharp in case the automation fails us, but make no mistake - it's a good thing when our jobs get easier. Sometimes the pilot ego in us doesn't like it, but we owe it to our passengers to keep that attitude in check. You can always go buy your own airplane if you need to feel like Chuck Yeager up there.

EDIT: Scambo beat me to it. Also, I just realized this is the Delta thread - in the interest of full disclosure, I'm not a Delta pilot. The point is the same, however.
Old 08-11-2012 | 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by biigD
Understand that being an airline pilot (which is what I assume you intend to be) is about getting the passengers from point A to point B as safely as possible. We spend a lot of time button pushing and monitoring because the automation frees us to more effectively see the big picture, which in turn makes things safer. Obviously we need to keep the fundamentals sharp in case the automation fails us, but make no mistake - it's a good thing when our jobs get easier. Sometimes the pilot ego in us doesn't like it, but we owe it to our passengers to keep that attitude in check. You can always go buy your own airplane if you need to feel like Chuck Yeager up there.

EDIT: Scambo beat me to it. Also, I just realized this is the Delta thread - in the interest of full disclosure, I'm not a Delta pilot. The point is the same, however.
I completely understand that. The reason I mention it, though, is because I have read some threads (not all on this particular forum) that say the Airbus automation system is sometimes "too" automated, taking too much control from the human pilots.

This sounds super immature, but I still think that being able to learn everything about that DC9 cockpit, or MD88, etc., with the hundreds of switches and controls, with a different protocol for each one, is just very cool!
Old 08-11-2012 | 02:34 PM
  #107286  
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Originally Posted by skylover
So I'm guessing the Airbus fleet is more on the "smart" side?

Why did SWA have anything to do with the 737 cockpit being "dumb"?

Now let me just present my opinion, keeping in mind that I am not a pilot yet. When I say I want to be a pilot, I really mean that - I don't want to simply monitor the aircraft computers. I would imagine a pilot flying a DC9, for example, tests one's flying skills more than a pilot flying an A320. (Of course, both pilots have the same skill set to begin with)
The A-320, 737, CRJ, and so on that I've flown all present me with the same basic information.

What is added with the computers is better and more efficient information presentation. We run around on the autopilot most of the time, it's just that all the other stuff is presented in a more efficient manner. The systems interface on the Airbus is the best I've actually flown (with the 777 going well above and beyond that).

All of them tell you something broke, just on the 737 you get to go on an easter egg hunt to find it... while on other modern airliners there is a centralized message system. The light is the rumor, what is on the screen is the truth.

Now, the DC-9 has no computer interface whatsoever- you're still tuning radios and doing everything like back in the old days. You still crosscheck to make sure you're going to make your crossings and that you're in the right place with the new aircraft, just you are relieved of the grunt task of doing that constantly- just making sure it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. Every airliner that I've flown, the computer from time to time will crap out and test you to see if you're still paying attention. Some of it is from user error, and sometimes (one of the most spectacular examples of this next one was on the 737) the hamster just falls off the wheel.

All in all, if you relegate yourself to computer monitor and stop being a pilot, it will bite you hard. The computers are there just to make the long days easier and keep the higher problem solving levels of your brain available for when the poop really hits the fan.

Every airliner I've flown you can turn it all off and fly it like a 172, even the airbus (though the trimming is done for you)
Old 08-11-2012 | 02:37 PM
  #107287  
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Originally Posted by skylover
I completely understand that. The reason I mention it, though, is because I have read some threads (not all on this particular forum) that say the Airbus automation system is sometimes "too" automated, taking too much control from the human pilots.

This sounds super immature, but I still think that being able to learn everything about that DC9 cockpit, or MD88, etc., with the hundreds of switches and controls, with a different protocol for each one, is just very cool!
You've still got to learn about all the switches and controls in the "glass" cockpit airplanes and the "protocol" for each one! The logic is just much better and more user friendly on the new generation aircraft.
Old 08-11-2012 | 02:40 PM
  #107288  
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Originally Posted by biigD

EDIT: Also, I just realized this is the Delta thread - in the interest of full disclosure, I'm not a Delta pilot. The point is the same, however.


Did you not get the memo this is Delta pilots only. Every thread on APC belongs to us. If you didn't realize that already, just ask the Southwest guys.
Old 08-11-2012 | 02:44 PM
  #107289  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp


Did you not get the memo this is Delta pilots only. Every thread on APC belongs to us. If you didn't realize that already, just ask the Southwest guys.
or General Aviation or FAs.

Last edited by N9373M; 08-11-2012 at 02:56 PM.
Old 08-11-2012 | 03:04 PM
  #107290  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Did you not get the memo this is Delta pilots only.
Ha! I'll admit I'm a Delta wannabe. There's a noticeable lack of underboob over on my airline's thread, so I hang out here instead.
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