But nobody wants to talk about the Elephant in the room! :eek:

Which one? HND? Cabotage? NFL SCAB Refs? :p

Yes! :cool:

Stupid elephants. :( :mad:

You guys have yet to fully grasp Moakism.
We don't make demands anymore and we don't use leverage. We truly are in a new era of labor relations at Delta. Our leaders "constructively engage" with management and arrive at a consensus. It is then our leaders' job to get the results past the MEC and the pilot group.

How do you know when that time arrives? Please show your work on this one. No "supposes" or "maybes" or "appears" or other similar words. I need empirical evidence. Prove to me that voting no would have resulted in a better contract with more pay and less work than SWA, and I am all in. Remember that we have over $12B (last time I looked) in debt, and a contracting economy.

...and then mock other pilot groups that engage in traditional trade unionism. :mad:

true dat.......

Speaking of the NFL refs...

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4001/4...5f1389c1_z.jpg

I had a conversation with a fellow Delta pilot and I mentioned how one union (the players) play on while another strikes and is replaced. Just that it looks odd, at least from a union perspective, how they just seem to ignore a strike being broken and they play on.

He said the players would not want the NFL ref strike to bring the games to a stop. Sounds selfish, but then how many pilots wanted the AFA vote to fail because we didn't want to have them unionized and threaten our airline? Of course, if we go on strike...

I don't think anyone is mocking them, but there are numerous real life cases to point to that show that the confrontational "US vs. Them" style is not working out for a number of pilot groups.

A large part of the Moak 'constructive engagement' theory says that Pilot quality of life improves greatly when you work for a stable company and both labor and management can find common ground that benefits both sides. The fact is, gains are made at the negotiating table, not by running around wearing FUPM bracelets and trying to 'burn it down'....though granted, the latter are far more sexy.

Like most Yes voters, I was hoping for more in this last contract, but I think there were also real gains and despite the pessimistic outlook, I think there will be growth down the line...just not as quickly as we wanted. In the meantime for now I work for a stable company with a bright future and no poisonous acrimony among us to deal with every day I go to work.....and I get to have another shot at incremental improvments in two years. Given the upheaval and turmoil in the industry over the past decade, I'm OK with a stable company, steady improvements in QOL, and no labor vs managment drama in the workplace.

So No, I'm not mocking other groups, but when I look around at the trainwrecks that are going on at other places, I'm glad I'm where I am.