I think RA wants, obviously, to move us toward a more efficient pilot group where less pilots do more flying. He needs this to be able to compete with the new landscape in ATL that is approaching.

He is going to do it slowly, though. He doesn't want to rock the boat. Each contract will have more work rules given up, covered up by raises. This is why he didn't care about a short contract. Next time, he will do the same thing. Work rule give backs to make the pilot group smaller. Our pilot group will buy it again after another awesome ALPA marketing job. Eventually our pay rates will be southwest, but we will working like them too. Whether you like this or not, is a personal preference.

It seems to me that most proponents of the TA wanted exactly what I highlighted. Personally, I want the pay without the work. :D

I'm curious (and maybe there's some info on the web from the actual refs as to their reasoning) what their logic was. I imagine they were going with the rule that a tie goes to the offensive receiver, but in this case it didn't seem to be a tie since Jennings had the ball to his chest and Tate just had his hands on the ball. If that defines a tie in the NFL then that would give Tate the TD. But you still have to get over that blatant push-knockdown Tate got away with as well.

I was actually giving the replacement refs a lot of slack. The regular refs get calls wrong too...they call pass interference when it's barely evident, and don't call it when it's deserved; they just don't make as many bad calls as these replacements. I expect a lot of fans will be calling for replacement refs when their team is the victim of a bad call at some point.

First off, I don't always agree with Alfa but isn't everything in a section 6 negotiation pretty much a trade-off? At times we have more leverage and can try to "demand" more and at other times we have less leverage and have to trade-off more.

Many have made the argument that we had a lot of leverage this time and did not use it, maybe we did but no way to really know now. The minute the MEC came back with a divided vote it was game over.

If the MEC had kicked it back unanimously we could have tried to apply more leverage and "demand" some more goodies, but with a split MEC it would have been almost impossible to unify the Pilot group. Thus we have more trade-offs than demands.


Scoop

Nobody heard that.....

.....but come on, this is an Internet Forum, you can throw anything out there and get people to repeat in posts for at least 5 pages and suddenly it becomes true. Heck, without rumors and innuendo, this thread would have died out sometime in 2009

Nu, you assert that "we had more leverage than we wound up using."

Could you tell me exactly how much leverage we had?
How much were those maintenance costs?
Also, what was the total value of our contractual gains?
If you would show your math, that would be great.

Or are you just shooting from the hip?

Exactly. Those i've come across that voted Yes was either

a) 50+ crowd who needs to makeup for pension, anyway possible.
b) Large alimony payment, expensive hobby
c) Just LOVE flying for what it is, doesn't care if he gets paid or not.

There's gotta be a fine balance between efficiency like SWA and getting paid like SWA. I want to get paid MORE than SWA, but work less than SWA.

I don't mind if the a-c) group wants to make as much as possible for personal gains via white slip, green slip, sitting extra short calls, cleaning cabins, but I have a problem when that group impose the same "work ethics" to the rest of us slackers:cool:

So you are saying 63% of the Delta pilots fall in your yes category, I think you have a future as a replacement NFL Ref.

RVR,

I don't fit into any of your groups and would love to get paid more and work less than SWA - but is that realistic? :confused: I do believe Johnson was joking.

I am a fly as little as possible type of guy (even flying reserve when I can hold a line) but do not think that anyone "imposed" anything on us - it was after, a vote that decided the TA.

Scoop

sorry if my post offended any Yes voters. I guess all the pages of pessimistic views on our industry has gotten to me. have a good day y'all!