Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-03-2012 | 07:09 AM
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From: Kickin’ Back
Denny, what about this?
1.O.3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
Here's the way I'm interpreting. It doesn't state to AND from Delta hubs, or in between Delta hubs. It states to OR from Delta hubs. So if the the AS flight is SEA TO SLC, they can't put the DL code on it. If the AS flight is to SEA FROM SLC, they can't put the DL code on it.
Am I off on this one?
1.O.3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
Here's the way I'm interpreting. It doesn't state to AND from Delta hubs, or in between Delta hubs. It states to OR from Delta hubs. So if the the AS flight is SEA TO SLC, they can't put the DL code on it. If the AS flight is to SEA FROM SLC, they can't put the DL code on it.
Am I off on this one?
So I was looking for clarification. When I think about it, this would also apply to Alaska flights between SEA/ATL and SEA/MSP.I'd like clarification from Alfa or Slowplay if I'm right or wrong and, if wrong, how am I reading it wrong.
Denny
11-03-2012 | 07:20 AM
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That's the way I'm reading it too. But that's not the way I see Alfa interpreting it. Alaska can fly from Seattle to any of our hubs but we cannot put our code on the flights. But whenever I think I read contract language correctly I get bitten in the arse! So I was looking for clarification. When I think about it, this would also apply to Alaska flights between SEA/ATL and SEA/MSP.
I'd like clarification from Alfa or Slowplay if I'm right or wrong and, if wrong, how am I reading it wrong.
Denny
So I was looking for clarification. When I think about it, this would also apply to Alaska flights between SEA/ATL and SEA/MSP.I'd like clarification from Alfa or Slowplay if I'm right or wrong and, if wrong, how am I reading it wrong.
Denny
11-03-2012 | 07:47 AM
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From: Kickin’ Back
11-03-2012 | 07:59 AM
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Just like the AS flights between SEA and ATL or SEA to MSP...no code share. It’s funny to look at money making flights like SEA to AUS & SAT aren’t code shared either.
So like I said...wait and see if we cut flights = lost $$$ and lost DAL pilots working. These flights are generally full, so if there was room to grow, why didn’t we add a flight.
I wasn't saying earlier that our "contact" can state no this or that...but it could have...this is scope in another color other than the color of "RJ". This deal was in the works before we signed the contact and management knew it. I was sitting in Seattle and saw the announcement a month ago…my thoughts at the time were…great we are expanding Asia…and why are we announcing even a stronger agreement with AS…W$%O…? “What is in the works?”... one month later…bing! I’ll given them (reluctantly) the north/south feed but more expansion into our hubs…NO!
I don’t understand how we as a group don’t have more of voice when it comes to our engagement with management. If DAL has such a strong partnership with AS and we scratch each other’s back then why do I feel we are on the short end of the stick (sts)?
So like I said...wait and see if we cut flights = lost $$$ and lost DAL pilots working. These flights are generally full, so if there was room to grow, why didn’t we add a flight.
I wasn't saying earlier that our "contact" can state no this or that...but it could have...this is scope in another color other than the color of "RJ". This deal was in the works before we signed the contact and management knew it. I was sitting in Seattle and saw the announcement a month ago…my thoughts at the time were…great we are expanding Asia…and why are we announcing even a stronger agreement with AS…W$%O…? “What is in the works?”... one month later…bing! I’ll given them (reluctantly) the north/south feed but more expansion into our hubs…NO!
I don’t understand how we as a group don’t have more of voice when it comes to our engagement with management. If DAL has such a strong partnership with AS and we scratch each other’s back then why do I feel we are on the short end of the stick (sts)?
Last edited by GBU-24; 11-03-2012 at 08:19 AM.
11-03-2012 | 08:34 AM
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I'm flying solo in my crashpad bored out of my mind, so I went to Delta and Alaska's websites. I can not find any direct flights in between SEA and MSP/ATL that have shared codes. So I think the same will apply for the SLC flights. No codeshare on flights in or out of any DAL hub.
EDIT: I did find a ATL SEA flight via MSP with the MSP leg being operated by AS that has a codeshare number on it. This specific flight is on 12/17/12. But maybe we have 4 flights in between MSP SEA??? Hmmmmm.......more research to help kill SC.
Last edited by johnso29; 11-03-2012 at 08:54 AM.
11-03-2012 | 08:39 AM
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From: B757/767
..............
Last edited by johnso29; 11-03-2012 at 08:55 AM. Reason: doing some more research to be sure
11-03-2012 | 08:51 AM
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I am willing to bet we won't defend our turf as vigorously as if it were some other interloping airline.
11-03-2012 | 10:03 AM
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From: Kickin’ Back
Denny,
I'm flying solo in my crashpad bored out of my mind, so I went to Delta and Alaska's websites. I can not find any direct flights in between SEA and MSP/ATL that have shared codes. So I think the same will apply for the SLC flights. No codeshare on flights in or out of any DAL hub.
EDIT: I did find a ATL SEA flight via MSP with the MSP leg being operated by AS that has a codeshare number on it. This specific flight is on 12/17/12. But maybe we have 4 flights in between MSP SEA??? Hmmmmm.......more research to help kill SC.
I'm flying solo in my crashpad bored out of my mind, so I went to Delta and Alaska's websites. I can not find any direct flights in between SEA and MSP/ATL that have shared codes. So I think the same will apply for the SLC flights. No codeshare on flights in or out of any DAL hub.
EDIT: I did find a ATL SEA flight via MSP with the MSP leg being operated by AS that has a codeshare number on it. This specific flight is on 12/17/12. But maybe we have 4 flights in between MSP SEA??? Hmmmmm.......more research to help kill SC.
I'm kinda surprised you're not busy!!
Thanks for looking that up Johnso.
Denny
11-03-2012 | 10:42 AM
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From: erb
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11-03-2012 | 10:55 AM
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I'll go with Denny Dingle Dangle Crane on this one.
1.B.6. “Alaska hub” means SEA, ANC, LAX and any other airport having a monthly average of 37 at least 100 Alaska scheduled flight departures per day.
1.B.23. “Delta hub” means ATL, CVG, DTW, JFK, LAX, SLC, LGA, MEM, MSP, DTW, MEM, SLC, and any other airport having a monthly average of at least 100 Delta scheduled flight departures per day.
1.O.3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
1.B.6. “Alaska hub” means SEA, ANC, LAX and any other airport having a monthly average of 37 at least 100 Alaska scheduled flight departures per day.
1.B.23. “Delta hub” means ATL, CVG, DTW, JFK, LAX, SLC, LGA, MEM, MSP, DTW, MEM, SLC, and any other airport having a monthly average of at least 100 Delta scheduled flight departures per day.
Exception: SEA is not a Delta hub, regardless of the number of scheduled flight departures.
1.O.2. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments between Delta hubs whether or not a Delta hub is also an Alaska hub. 1.O.3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
Exception one: The DL code may be placed on AS flight segments to or from LAX, subject to Section 1 O. 2. Any such flight segments between LAX and an Alaska hub will be included in the calculations in Section 1 O.3.
Exception two: The DL code may be placed on AS hub to hub flight segments, provided that the following limitations are satisfied (measured at the end of each month on a rolling 12 month average):
Exception two: The DL code may be placed on AS hub to hub flight segments, provided that the following limitations are satisfied (measured at the end of each month on a rolling 12 month average):
a. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of DL bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of AS bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0, and
b. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Delta bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Alaska bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0.
Note one: AS flight segments between SEA and LAX will not be used in calculating the ratios in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b.
Note two: Each requirement in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b. will be satisfied if, with respect to such requirement, the number of scheduled flight segments of Delta or DL, as applicable, bearing the AS code, as applicable, is no more than two average daily scheduled flight segments below the minimum number of such flight segments specified by such requirement. It is understood that “average daily scheduled flight segments” will be computed with respect to the applicable rolling time period.
b. the ratio of the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Delta bearing an AS code, to the aggregate number of scheduled hub to hub flight segments of Alaska bearing a DL code, must equal or exceed 4.0.
Note one: AS flight segments between SEA and LAX will not be used in calculating the ratios in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b.
Note two: Each requirement in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two a. and b. will be satisfied if, with respect to such requirement, the number of scheduled flight segments of Delta or DL, as applicable, bearing the AS code, as applicable, is no more than two average daily scheduled flight segments below the minimum number of such flight segments specified by such requirement. It is understood that “average daily scheduled flight segments” will be computed with respect to the applicable rolling time period.
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