Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-20-2012, 09:35 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,999
Being edited
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 12-20-2012 at 09:53 AM.
12-20-2012, 09:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by PilotFrog
yes, I did read it wrong, sorry. VA got the slots BA had to give up, now they just need jets and presumably crews to do the flying. The Scots might let us do the Aberdeen and Edinburgh to Heathrow flying, they don't consider themselves British anyway. TIC
(Or wishful thinking on my behalf?)
12-20-2012, 10:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by DeadHead
Possibly downward pressure towards VA doing more inter-Europe regional flying while other "new" partners pick up growth on the international side of the house?
(Or wishful thinking on my behalf?)
(Or wishful thinking on my behalf?)
Or is that just too logical?
12-20-2012, 10:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by PilotFrog
yes, I did read it wrong, sorry. VA got the slots BA had to give up, now they just need jets and presumably crews to do the flying. The Scots might let us do the Aberdeen and Edinburgh to Heathrow flying, they don't consider themselves British anyway. TIC
12-20-2012, 10:19 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,999
So anyone else see a RED CAUTION when reading the following?
We put our preferential hiring language in Section 1. ALPA reports they sat down to discuss our Section 1 with Delta management without our MEC's involvement? Who authorized that?
In the wee hours of Monday, December 17, the Pinnacle Airlines
Negotiating Committee of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l, reached
a tentative agreement (TA) with Pinnacle Airlines management on a
deal that is designed to address the significant financial hurdles that
caused the company to file bankruptcy in April 2012 and meet the
needs of the pilots.
We appreciate the support of all Pinnacle pilots throughout this yearlong
ordeal,” said Capt. Tom Wychor, MEC chairman. “Difficult
decisions had to be made, but our goal has always been to represent
the needs of our pilots.”
The Pinnacle MEC met with the Negotiating Committee in Washington,
D.C., today to evaluate the terms of the agreement, and are awaiting
final language before they vote. Should the MEC approve the TA, the
Pinnacle Strategic Preparedness Committee is scheduling a series of
informational road shows prior to a ratification vote.
“Due to the liquidity issues facing our company, we will need to
complete all roadshows and balloting on the new agreement by
January 15,” Wychor added. “We intend to get all information out to
every Pinnacle pilot as soon as possible so that they can begin to
process the information on this important future decision.”
Both sides convened in the ALPA D.C. offices Monday, December 10, to
begin the round-the-clock bargaining that was necessary to reach an
agreement that provides significant cost savings, while at the same
time preserving a future for Pinnacle pilots. Senior management from
Delta Air Lines also participated in the discussions. Representatives
from Delta worked closely with Pinnacle’s management team to
facilitate discussions and provide guidance on key questions related to
airline fleet and career progression opportunities for the Pinnacle pilots.
Negotiating Committee of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l, reached
a tentative agreement (TA) with Pinnacle Airlines management on a
deal that is designed to address the significant financial hurdles that
caused the company to file bankruptcy in April 2012 and meet the
needs of the pilots.
We appreciate the support of all Pinnacle pilots throughout this yearlong
ordeal,” said Capt. Tom Wychor, MEC chairman. “Difficult
decisions had to be made, but our goal has always been to represent
the needs of our pilots.”
The Pinnacle MEC met with the Negotiating Committee in Washington,
D.C., today to evaluate the terms of the agreement, and are awaiting
final language before they vote. Should the MEC approve the TA, the
Pinnacle Strategic Preparedness Committee is scheduling a series of
informational road shows prior to a ratification vote.
“Due to the liquidity issues facing our company, we will need to
complete all roadshows and balloting on the new agreement by
January 15,” Wychor added. “We intend to get all information out to
every Pinnacle pilot as soon as possible so that they can begin to
process the information on this important future decision.”
Both sides convened in the ALPA D.C. offices Monday, December 10, to
begin the round-the-clock bargaining that was necessary to reach an
agreement that provides significant cost savings, while at the same
time preserving a future for Pinnacle pilots. Senior management from
Delta Air Lines also participated in the discussions. Representatives
from Delta worked closely with Pinnacle’s management team to
facilitate discussions and provide guidance on key questions related to
airline fleet and career progression opportunities for the Pinnacle pilots.
12-20-2012, 10:21 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,999
referencing post http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...ml#post1315754
Why it matters.
The idea that other pilot groups are cutting deals with Delta management, circumventing our Representatives, has me very concerned. Even if ALPA will tolerate unauthorized bargaining,* we can't abide.
ALPA's Administrative manual states the following, and ethically, it is the right thing to do:
We Delta pilots ratified a contract which respects this Administrative Manual Goal:
Pinnacle's MEC comes along and wants to reorder the preferential hiring or flow to benefit their senior Captains who already have a job. I read that as a modification to what we've ratified in our contract, an unauthorized change by someone unauthorized to even be at the table with Delta management.
And what is the goal of this change? To sell a concessionary agreement which lowers the pay and working conditions of pilots who fly Delta passengers with a flow though.
If you share my concern, write your Reps so that can be remedied before this TA language goes out and we have an even larger mess to deal with. Further, I want it made clear, if Delta management wants to sit down and talk to pilot labor, they talk to the Delta MEC.
* (references, the principle of "exclusivity" in the Railway Labor Act, local autonomy Article IV, Section 2 of ALPA's Constitution and Bylaws, authority as outlined in Article XVIII Section 1. *There are numerous procedures specific to Section 1 negotiations which appear to have been violated, but I will await the publication of triggering language, if that's the case here)
Why it matters.
The idea that other pilot groups are cutting deals with Delta management, circumventing our Representatives, has me very concerned. Even if ALPA will tolerate unauthorized bargaining,* we can't abide.
ALPA's Administrative manual states the following, and ethically, it is the right thing to do:
“It shall be ALPA's goal to secure contract language in every ALPA agreement which provides for the preferntial hiring of ALPA Represented pilots displaced by furlough, bankruptcy, shutdown, or strike. In furtherance of this goal, each MEC shall use its bet efforts to secure first right of interview for displaced ALPA pilots.”
“A carrier that operates 70- or 76-seat aircraft in category A or C may do so only if that
carrier and the Company have agreed that the carrier will make offers of employment to
furloughed pilots before any other candidate for hire (subject to a furloughed pilots
completing the hiring carrier’s standard new-hire airman paper work, meeting the hiring
carrier’s standard new-hire airman hiring standards and medical qualifications, satisfying
the hiring carrier’s standard background checks, and successfully completing an
interview). Such offers will be made in pilot seniority order. A furloughed pilot hired by
a Delta Connection Carrier will not be required to resign his Delta seniority number in
order to be hired by such carrier. Preferential hiring rights at Delta Connection Carriers
for pilots furloughed by the Company provided herein will be in addition to any rights to
be hired or to flow down that such furloughed pilots may have pursuant to NWA LOA
2006-10 and LOA #9. The provisions of Section 1 D. 10. will apply to carriers that
operate 70- or 76-seat aircraft for the Company as a result of a merger transaction no later
than one year after the closing date.
11. The Company will fill a minimum of 35% of the aggregate of all positions in Delta pilot
new-hire classes in each trailing twelve-month period (to the extent airmen are available)
with ALPA-represented airmen at Delta Connection Carriers, subject to such airmen
meeting the Company’s competitive hiring standards, and subject to the Company’s
objectives for diversity and experience among newly hired pilots. Airmen who flow up
pursuant to LOA #9 and LOA #10 count toward satisfaction of such minimum
percentage.
12. The Company will offer preferential interviews for employment to airmen employed by
carriers (whose airmen were represented by the Association) at the time those carriers
ceased operations, subject to the Company’s objectives for diversity and experience
among newly hired pilots and subject to Section 1 D. 11.”
carrier and the Company have agreed that the carrier will make offers of employment to
furloughed pilots before any other candidate for hire (subject to a furloughed pilots
completing the hiring carrier’s standard new-hire airman paper work, meeting the hiring
carrier’s standard new-hire airman hiring standards and medical qualifications, satisfying
the hiring carrier’s standard background checks, and successfully completing an
interview). Such offers will be made in pilot seniority order. A furloughed pilot hired by
a Delta Connection Carrier will not be required to resign his Delta seniority number in
order to be hired by such carrier. Preferential hiring rights at Delta Connection Carriers
for pilots furloughed by the Company provided herein will be in addition to any rights to
be hired or to flow down that such furloughed pilots may have pursuant to NWA LOA
2006-10 and LOA #9. The provisions of Section 1 D. 10. will apply to carriers that
operate 70- or 76-seat aircraft for the Company as a result of a merger transaction no later
than one year after the closing date.
11. The Company will fill a minimum of 35% of the aggregate of all positions in Delta pilot
new-hire classes in each trailing twelve-month period (to the extent airmen are available)
with ALPA-represented airmen at Delta Connection Carriers, subject to such airmen
meeting the Company’s competitive hiring standards, and subject to the Company’s
objectives for diversity and experience among newly hired pilots. Airmen who flow up
pursuant to LOA #9 and LOA #10 count toward satisfaction of such minimum
percentage.
12. The Company will offer preferential interviews for employment to airmen employed by
carriers (whose airmen were represented by the Association) at the time those carriers
ceased operations, subject to the Company’s objectives for diversity and experience
among newly hired pilots and subject to Section 1 D. 11.”
And what is the goal of this change? To sell a concessionary agreement which lowers the pay and working conditions of pilots who fly Delta passengers with a flow though.
If you share my concern, write your Reps so that can be remedied before this TA language goes out and we have an even larger mess to deal with. Further, I want it made clear, if Delta management wants to sit down and talk to pilot labor, they talk to the Delta MEC.
* (references, the principle of "exclusivity" in the Railway Labor Act, local autonomy Article IV, Section 2 of ALPA's Constitution and Bylaws, authority as outlined in Article XVIII Section 1. *There are numerous procedures specific to Section 1 negotiations which appear to have been violated, but I will await the publication of triggering language, if that's the case here)
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 12-20-2012 at 10:43 AM.
12-20-2012, 10:38 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Looks like it's not just Delta.
Alaska Airlines and Aeromexico Partner to Make Travel Easier to the United States - Yahoo! Finance
Alaska Airlines and Aeromexico Partner to Make Travel Easier to the United States - Yahoo! Finance
12-20-2012, 10:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Originally Posted by Sink r8
TOC indeed. We don't need to do their intra-Europe. They can shift crews to do the intra-Europe, and we can fly more of the Atlantic, in a cost-effective way.
Since Virgin needs to restructure, there will be some effort on rationalizing the widebody fleet and refocusing on standing up a new narrowbody fleet that does the intra-Europe feed.
Virgin has indicated it is in the process of joining SkyTeam.
I still imagine DAL will integrate the VA flying into the existing Transatlantic JV. I doubt AF/KLM/AZ will let DAL carve the most lucrative Transatlantic market out of the existing profit-sharing agreement without a fight.
Plug in a few more dots and I see a way to have a transaction not unlike the 717/76-seater/50-seater deal, but across multiple continents, carriers and fleets...
This deal could work really well for Delta and if we push for the right things, Delta pilots.
Cheers
George
12-20-2012, 10:50 AM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by georgetg
This deal could work really well for Delta and if we push for the right things, Delta pilots.
it's only a matter of time before the usual DALPA suspects start lowering expectations.
But that's OK, since "we'll get 'em next time."
12-20-2012, 10:55 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
That would require DALPA to push for the "right things." What could possibly go wrong?
it's only a matter of time before the usual DALPA suspects start lowering expectations.
But that's OK, since "we'll get 'em next time."
it's only a matter of time before the usual DALPA suspects start lowering expectations.
But that's OK, since "we'll get 'em next time."
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
