Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-22-2012 | 04:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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My gripe with flow throughs is merely the fact that they patronize an overworked, underpaid, and overall under appreciated pilot group.
Furthermore, while a flow through will create opportunities for some, it will undoubtedly destroy opportunities for others.
It's like out last TA all over again, a management team is attempting to extract as much negotiationing capital as possible from things they plan on doing already.
In the end of the day it's a numbers game, when you get your time and when the next career door opens for you. A senior captain once told me we are always one bad CEO away from bankruptcy.
Every company has that 5% of pilots we all know should probably not be there, and that includes both DAL and PNCL.
Hope that doesn't sound too high-horsey, and I wish the best for all the pilots at PNCL and would love to see some new guys come in.
(And I could careless where they come from as long as they easy to work with and didn't pay for their job)
Furthermore, while a flow through will create opportunities for some, it will undoubtedly destroy opportunities for others.
It's like out last TA all over again, a management team is attempting to extract as much negotiationing capital as possible from things they plan on doing already.
In the end of the day it's a numbers game, when you get your time and when the next career door opens for you. A senior captain once told me we are always one bad CEO away from bankruptcy.
Every company has that 5% of pilots we all know should probably not be there, and that includes both DAL and PNCL.
Hope that doesn't sound too high-horsey, and I wish the best for all the pilots at PNCL and would love to see some new guys come in.
(And I could careless where they come from as long as they easy to work with and didn't pay for their job)
12-22-2012 | 04:59 AM
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From: AN124 FE
People who are not eligible to reinterview due to previously failing the HR portion will now (if this passes) be given a second and potentially third chance. That was what was pointed out. All this while pilots from other airlines/backgrounds that failed it will never be given the second chance.
Regardless, I'm glad that they have the screening process and are holding them to the DL requirements. That was my minimum for not going all pitchforks and torches on it.
The DCI 35% quota was done due to the pain that the TA was going to cause at the regionals. That pain has transpired. Now the 9E MEC has gone around DALPA and negotiated this outside of our section 1.
As far as it passing... As a junior FO I could see voting yes due to the impending furlough and benefits for furloughs. As a mid range CA... not a chance. Anyone without a degree has little reason to vote yes either... So, we'll see.
Regardless, I'm glad that they have the screening process and are holding them to the DL requirements. That was my minimum for not going all pitchforks and torches on it.
The DCI 35% quota was done due to the pain that the TA was going to cause at the regionals. That pain has transpired. Now the 9E MEC has gone around DALPA and negotiated this outside of our section 1.
As far as it passing... As a junior FO I could see voting yes due to the impending furlough and benefits for furloughs. As a mid range CA... not a chance. Anyone without a degree has little reason to vote yes either... So, we'll see.
12-22-2012 | 05:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: A big one that looks like a little one
You guys are terrible. Let's dismount from the high horse and open up our closed minds and look at the facts.
1) We vote to outsource flying
2) It's ok because we get a pay raise
3) Our passengers travel on Pinnacle/Compass/Skywest and 7+ other outsourced carriers and thats ok, if my pay goes up
4) Butttt....... It's not ok if they are a Delta pilot.
5) Half of these guys are getting put on the street due to a manufactured bankruptcy (by us)
6) Mainline pilots are taking nice big pay raises (we should) while guys at the bottom on poverty level wages are taking pay cuts, all while flying in the same system.
Getting off the high horse works pretty well for unity. Who are we to think we are so much better off than another pilot who flies the same passengers on the same tickets.
1) We vote to outsource flying
2) It's ok because we get a pay raise
3) Our passengers travel on Pinnacle/Compass/Skywest and 7+ other outsourced carriers and thats ok, if my pay goes up
4) Butttt....... It's not ok if they are a Delta pilot.
5) Half of these guys are getting put on the street due to a manufactured bankruptcy (by us)
6) Mainline pilots are taking nice big pay raises (we should) while guys at the bottom on poverty level wages are taking pay cuts, all while flying in the same system.
Getting off the high horse works pretty well for unity. Who are we to think we are so much better off than another pilot who flies the same passengers on the same tickets.
This isn't about poor RJ pilots - this is about Delta side stepping DALPA, and therefore compromising our bargaining capital in the future.
I may be their equals as a pilot, but once I'm here, I should expect that my company will support ME before it supports another pilot group. And right now, DAL, nor DALPA is supporting me.
12-22-2012 | 05:20 AM
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From: A big one that looks like a little one
After reading the bridge agreement, the reality hits.
Another MEC has scoped Delta flying. Another contract for operation of 76 seat jets now preempts the Delta Pilot Working Agreement.
Now if the Delta pilots try to improve our scope below 193 76 seat jets, we would have to get the permission of the Pinnacle pilots to do so.
Another MEC has scoped Delta flying. Another contract for operation of 76 seat jets now preempts the Delta Pilot Working Agreement.
Now if the Delta pilots try to improve our scope below 193 76 seat jets, we would have to get the permission of the Pinnacle pilots to do so.
There is NO upside to this.
12-22-2012 | 05:53 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
The right of mainline pilots to bargain with their management must be protected!
What's next, Virgin Atlantic pilots signing a deal with Richard Anderson? Just take the bridge agreement and swap out names and airplanes, then you begin to understand the problem when others "me too" on this. The Pinnacle agreement must be stopped. It can be properly re-written with the participation and concurrence of the Delta pilot representatives.
I have no problem with the intent. My problem is with the method and the ramifications of this precedent.
12-22-2012 | 05:55 AM
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From: Corporate Pilot
I've never been a regional pilot, but it sounds like the guys over at Pinnacle are getting hosed. I've wanted to be a Delta pilot for a long time, and one day I hope to get the call. I think I'd be a good fit, but I don't presume to be any better than the guys over at Pinnacle. There's no good answer to this. I just hope that Delta interviews us all, and hires whomever they feel strengthens their pilot group the most.
If that's me, great. But if that's the Pinnacle guy, I can accept that too.
If that's me, great. But if that's the Pinnacle guy, I can accept that too.
Maybe I should have stated that from what I read that it looks like to me that Delta is either trying to get a flowthrough with Pinnacle or at least guaranteed interviews. Personally, I think you should interview and hire who fits the bill. I never have liked the idea of being forced to hire folks because you have a flowthrough agreement. I'm sure its a good deal for the guys flowing through.
12-22-2012 | 05:55 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
12-22-2012 | 06:16 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Captain Jack
Bridge pilots only skip, basically getting selected/called for interview. They will do all Day 1 stuff AND possible Day2 stuff if DAL wants to with that pilot. The number Delta has to take is measured each Dec 31. No more bad pilots will get through at any higher rate than without this agreement.
c. Elements of the SSP. Pinnacle pilots who participate in the SSP in seniority order will be exempted from the pilot candidate initial screening process that applies to other Delta pilot candidates. The content and schedule of the SSP may change from time to time subject to Delta’s determination but is anticipated to contain the testing and panel interview elements of Delta’s current “Day 1” pilot selection process, a review of a Pinnacle pilot’s employment and training records and potentially certain elements of Delta’s current “Day 2” interview process.
c. Elements of the SSP. Pinnacle pilots who participate in the SSP in seniority order will be exempted from the pilot candidate initial screening process that applies to other Delta pilot candidates. The content and schedule of the SSP may change from time to time subject to Delta’s determination but is anticipated to contain the testing and panel interview elements of Delta’s current “Day 1” pilot selection process, a review of a Pinnacle pilot’s employment and training records and potentially certain elements of Delta’s current “Day 2” interview process.
12-22-2012 | 06:23 AM
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From: Captain Jack
This is also big too.
iii. provide full access to Delta to his employment and training records from Pinnacle, Mesaba and/or Colgan Airlines,
This is huge actually, this is not the traditional training history we had to provide, this is full access to "employment and training"
If you were a bad employee there is no way to hide it just by interviewing well.
iii. provide full access to Delta to his employment and training records from Pinnacle, Mesaba and/or Colgan Airlines,
This is huge actually, this is not the traditional training history we had to provide, this is full access to "employment and training"
If you were a bad employee there is no way to hide it just by interviewing well.
12-22-2012 | 06:37 AM
Junior Senior
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,851
Likes: 1
From: Whiskey Papa
I know an ex-Colgan Captain (Check Airman, actually) who would make a wonderful addition to the DL family. He's professional, mature, great piloting skills (honestly, whenever I flew with him you never knew you landed---he was THAT smooth). He always looked the part and was a stickler for standardization both in flying and personal appearance. His background outside aviation made him someone every crew member wanted to fly with as he always watched out for and protected his crew. I don't think he's an APC'er, but wish him well.
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