Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-22-2012, 11:21 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by georgetg
Rogue you get it, the precedence and how this might be used with bigger fish is the issue here!
Cheers
George
Cheers
George
12-22-2012, 11:29 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: AN124 FE
Posts: 1,226
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Some of your reps are aware of the problem, but keep the cards and letters going...
Nu
Nu
12-22-2012, 11:47 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Guys and gals, e-mail your concerns and why they are concerns to your Reps and or elects.
12-22-2012, 01:07 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Originally Posted by georgetg
Agree...
I have no problem with the terms of the proposed bridge agreement.
What's troubling is that the Pinnacle Bridge agreement was negotiated without input or feedback from Delta ALPA.
Essentially this is about the scope of our Union.
Is Delta ALPA the exclusive bargaining agent representing pilots towards Delta management,
or can any other pilot group walk up and cut their own deal with Delta management?
Cheers
George
I have no problem with the terms of the proposed bridge agreement.
What's troubling is that the Pinnacle Bridge agreement was negotiated without input or feedback from Delta ALPA.
Essentially this is about the scope of our Union.
Is Delta ALPA the exclusive bargaining agent representing pilots towards Delta management,
or can any other pilot group walk up and cut their own deal with Delta management?
Cheers
George
Oh I am completely in agreement as to the exclusivity we as Delta Pilots should have as it relates to negotiating with Delta management. Not sure how it works in lawyer world but it doesn't smell right to many of us line guys.
12-22-2012, 01:27 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Rogue24
Time will tell on this, but ALPA National is the exclusive bargaining agent and autonomy is give to the local level via the ALPA CBL.
Ford-Cooksey requires any part that may be effected to be made aware at the National level of ALPA that the talks are taking place. Local Autonomy provides that the MEC of a given airline does the direct bargaining and that National Approves the local level to initiate it. Nationals check of the process is have the president sign the agreement.
If DALPA was made aware, and the reps were not = issue on the MEC level
If all of DALPA was made aware on the MEC level = no issue but we should sign it too
If DALPA were totally unaware = big issue.
The cure for this is to restart negotiations with DALPA at the table and come to a new agreement that allows local autonomy to remain intact and the C&BL to be followed. The fix is not that big of a deal, but the repercussions may be for those at National that did not follow the admin manual or the C&BL.
Wait and see what transpires, there may be nothing to this. Facts need to come out. The issues that many have on here are; some of the details of the bridge agreement but mostly a process issue. Lets see if the process was followed. If it was not our MEC is bound to rectify it.
Ford-Cooksey requires any part that may be effected to be made aware at the National level of ALPA that the talks are taking place. Local Autonomy provides that the MEC of a given airline does the direct bargaining and that National Approves the local level to initiate it. Nationals check of the process is have the president sign the agreement.
If DALPA was made aware, and the reps were not = issue on the MEC level
If all of DALPA was made aware on the MEC level = no issue but we should sign it too
If DALPA were totally unaware = big issue.
The cure for this is to restart negotiations with DALPA at the table and come to a new agreement that allows local autonomy to remain intact and the C&BL to be followed. The fix is not that big of a deal, but the repercussions may be for those at National that did not follow the admin manual or the C&BL.
Wait and see what transpires, there may be nothing to this. Facts need to come out. The issues that many have on here are; some of the details of the bridge agreement but mostly a process issue. Lets see if the process was followed. If it was not our MEC is bound to rectify it.
The Pinnacle Bridge Agreement violates:
- Section 40 of the Admin Manual Part 1, I, 3 (referenced above)
- Section 40, Part 5, Paragraph 10 ... in that it gives preference to senior employed pilots over ALPA members who have lost their jobs and who need the help
- Section 40, Part 6 ... "snap back" provisions are actually a NO "snap back" provision in as much as the Pinnacle Pilots lose their aircraft six months after they begin trying to renegotiate their bankruptcy contract
The Pinnacle pilot violated the autonomy of the Delta pilots by: - Modifying our Scope Sections 1 D 11 and 1 D 12, by reordering (inverting actually) and limiting the preferential hiring language in our contract
- Restricting and limiting the rights of the Delta pilots to negotiate future contracts, by preempting Delta MEC bargaining. If we tried to recover flying, management could reasonably reply "we are already under a contract with Pinnacle."
- Directly negotiating pilot pay and benefits with Delta Air Lines management without the involvement of the Delta MEC.
The Railway Labor Act gives ALPA the power to represent us. The ALPA Constitution and Bylaws, Section IV, Section 2 gives each Master Executive Council broad autonomy to deal with the issues facing it's pilot group. Pay, scope and employment are central issues.
The first cure it to put ALPA National on notice of the violation and trust the internal review process to recommend our President not sign this concessionary TA. I have some confidence that this will stop right there. ALPA's Representation Department and our President take their duty to enforce the Constitution and Bylaws seriously.
If that fails, then an Executive Council can be convened to over ride ALPA's President. Given the importance of MEC autonomy to Continental, FedEx, Alaska (heck, anyone really) I'd guess just a few well placed phone calls by mainline MEC Chairs would make the President reconsider his signature.
I will get into more detail on internal remedies as this progresses.
For now, write your Reps. Talk to your friends at other carriers and ask them to get their MEC Chairmen involved. The second line of defense is for other MEC s to see how they would be affected by this change in ALPA policy. All they have to do is take the Pinnacle Bridge Agreement and change the names ...
Expressjet / Alaska
American Eagle / Continental
Mountain Air / FedEx
Virgin / Delta
I will applaud and say "thank you" when President Moak refuses to sign this agreement.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 12-22-2012 at 01:59 PM.
12-22-2012, 01:57 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by iceman49
Where is the rest of the language?
The issue is, another airline is sitting at the table doing deals that modify your contract without your MEC representing you.
12-22-2012, 02:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: A big one that looks like a little one
Posts: 633
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Doesn't matter. Don't make this too complex.
The issue is, another airline is sitting at the table doing deals that modify your contract without your MEC representing you.
The issue is, another airline is sitting at the table doing deals that modify your contract without your MEC representing you.
12-22-2012, 02:26 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Doesn't matter. Don't make this too complex.
The issue is, another airline is sitting at the table doing deals that modify your contract without your MEC representing you.
The issue is, another airline is sitting at the table doing deals that modify your contract without your MEC representing you.
12-22-2012, 02:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by iceman49
Bar, don't disagree, but how did this modify our contract?
12-22-2012, 02:49 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 174
Originally Posted by SailorJerry
Someone - somewhere - even Tom Wychor - should have, at some point, said "We really need to ask DALPA about this". The secrecy behind it is absurd. The timing is suspect. The deal is bogus. Great posts on this issue.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
