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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

80ktsClamp 01-25-2013 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1338602)
The aircraft stalled at the normal stall speed for their configuration. Ice was as mentioned not a factor. They were told to slow down. They went to a high drag configuration and let the aircraft stall with the throttles at idle. The FO did not sit like a bump on a log. She retracted the flaps and doomed any recovery attempt.

...sigh.. Welcome to the conversation, sailing.

We all already know what you posted.

What we're discussing is why they did what they did.

johnso29 01-25-2013 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by cni187 (Post 1338600)
Can the peeps there do that? I also have a week of vacation in Oct. Can they move that as well? Thanks for the info. I found the fmla stuff on dlnet but would rather not do that since will prob only need 2 weeks until the in laws take over.

cni187,

My youngest was born 12/2011. Call your Chief pilot and talk to him. He will work with you and walk you through the steps to take. You can try to shift your vacation via iCrew. I think you can get the time off you need without FMLA. At the very least, you would likely be able to move your X days around via iCrew after your schedule was awarded.

However if you call your Chief pilot ahead of time and keep him in the loop, I think they'll glady help you get the time off.

lolwut 01-25-2013 12:48 PM

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/33865209.jpg

BlueMoon 01-25-2013 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1338568)
I agree with 80 on this but I'm very open to the idea the Captain wasn't thinking tail stall and was just screwing up, but what if the FO thought it was a tail stall and pulled up the flaps? Making the problem unrecoverable.

As to the NTSB, I think they miss stuff sometimes.

Either way, I think ATR would be idiotic to put boots on that ATR-90 or whatever it is. I think they're idiots to put them on Dash 8s and ATRs now, but that's just me. I had an engineer explain why Citations and the small Embraer jet still use them but if the P180 lives without them, why not a jet?

I"m of the mindset she was just "undoing" that last thing that was done before the shaker went off.

Move the flap handle....shaker goes off....oh crap, undo what I just did,

80ktsClamp 01-25-2013 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by cni187 (Post 1338600)
Can the peeps there do that? I also have a week of vacation in Oct. Can they move that as well? Thanks for the info. I found the fmla stuff on dlnet but would rather not do that since will prob only need 2 weeks until the in laws take over.

Your vacation time can be used to pay for family leave days, which really opens that option up. Give the CPSC a call and they can explain your options. The company is really fantastic with doing whatever they can to help out.

I took 2 weeks as well... that was plenty of time to get mama bear stabilized. Having the in-laws near will definitely help out and relieve stress on her.

80ktsClamp 01-25-2013 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by BlueMoon (Post 1338617)
I"m of the mindset she was just "undoing" that last thing that was done before the shaker went off.

Move the flap handle....shaker goes off....oh crap, undo what I just did,

That could be exactly it as well.

gloopy 01-25-2013 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1336999)
here's another dot:

two dozen current generation 320/737-family aircraft for 1B cash and a trade for some 50-seat RJs..
Delta Said to Talk With Airbus, Boeing on Jet Purchase - Bloomberg

Cheers
George

I got excited about that until I read further in the article they were planes for 3-5 years from now and flat capacity. Maybe more flying from DCI to mainline? Hopefully.

forgot to bid 01-25-2013 01:23 PM

Keep this in mind from the NTSB report:


Conclusion:

15. Although the reasons the first officer retracted the flaps and suggested raising the gear could
not be determined from the available information, these actions were inconsistent with
company stall recovery procedures and training.

37. Pilots could have a better understanding of an airplane’s flight characteristics during the
post-stall flight regime if realistic, fully developed stall models were incorporated into
simulators that are approved for such training.

38. The inclusion of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration icing video in Colgan
Air’s winter operations training may lead pilots to assume that a tailplane stall might be
possible in the Q400, resulting in negative training.



I added 37 for some reason...

Also, there was about 10 seconds from flap handle movement to her saying she had put the flaps up. Anyone know what the time was from flaps down to flaps back up?

gloopy 01-25-2013 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1337248)
All things being equal:

Fleet . . Pilots . . Ratio
767 . . 12,434 . . 16.21 (merger ratio)
720 . . 11784 . . 16.37 (current ratio)

[email protected] = 12,903 (merger ratio)
[email protected] = 13,030 (current ratio)

The question is, if we are overstaffed with 11,784 pilots and a fleet of 720 jets, what level are we overstaffed by?
The 15 pilots/plane number was bantered about in the 717 fleet discussion. Some fleets might be lower, with augmented crews some fleets are higher, so its's about a wash. At a ratio of 16 pilots/plane you got quite a few guys in training but that's not an unlikely scenario...

Current [email protected] = 11,520 (that would mean we are overstaffed by 264 right now)
Future [email protected] = 12,736 or roughly +1000

Cheers
George

So +1000 as it applies to the current ratios, dust settled and everything. But there is a lot of dust in the upcoming training bubble as many have stated. I keep hearing 500ish to staff the bubble, and it will have to be pre-emptive hiring, obviously before the bubble is, well, a bubble.

So +1500 by the end of the 717 fleet plan...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QJIYqjaJRS...res%2Bmore.jpg

But by then the ER's will be out of mods and, hopefully, doing more "ER" flying. If the VAtl JVwhatever it is ends up being even a little net positive for us by then. We will be in a position to rule the galaxy.


http://imghumour.com/assets/Uploads/...heres-More.jpg
^^^^^by the way, see what i did there? shuttle? as in Delta Shuttle, implying mainline? giggity.

Plus the FTDT rule changes, plus the huge retirement years starting to crest, and if there is even a couple more weekly TransPac flights per the VAus JVthingy then we could be looking at yet even more.

All in a couple years. If any of this is true we're going to have to start hiring, significant hiring, pretty soon. And ramp up to massive hiring, almost as pretty soon. So...

Yeah, I know.







Wait for it.
















Wait for it.













It just seems too good to be true.

Yeah, I know.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...z8AHWRkILbVnL7

But we'll see.

forgot to bid 01-25-2013 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1338654)
Keep this in mind from the NTSB report:

[/B][/COLOR]

I added 37 for some reason...

Also, there was about 10 seconds from flap handle movement to her saying she had put the flaps up. Anyone know what the time was from flaps down to flaps back up?

found it, 8 seconds.


About the same time, the captain called for the
flaps to be set to 15° and for the before landing checklist. The CVR then recorded a sound
similar to flap handle movement, and FDR data showed that the flaps had been selected to 10°.16
FDR data also showed that the airspeed at the time was about 135 knots.

At 2216:27.4, the CVR recorded a sound similar to the stick shaker. (The stick shaker
warns a pilot of an impending wing aerodynamic stall17 through vibrations on the control
column, providing tactile and aural cues.) The CVR also recorded a sound similar to the
autopilot disconnect horn, which repeated until the end of the recording. FDR data showed that,
when the autopilot disengaged, the airplane was at an airspeed of 131 knots. FDR data showed
that the control columns moved aft at 2216:27.8 and that the engine power levers were advanced
to about 70° (rating detent was 80°)
1 second later.18 The CVR then recorded a sound similar to
increased engine power, and FDR data showed that engine power had increased to about 75
percent torque.

FDR data also showed that, while engine power was increasing, the airplane pitched up;
rolled to the left, reaching a roll angle of 45° left wing down; and then rolled to the right.
As the
airplane rolled to the right through wings level, the stick pusher activated (about 2216:34), and
flaps 0 was selected. (The Q400 stick pusher applies an airplane-nose-down control column
input to decrease the wing angle-of-attack [AOA] after an aerodynamic stall.) About 2216:37,
the first officer told the captain that she had put the flaps up. FDR data confirmed that the flaps
had begun to retract by 2216:38; at that time, the airplane’s airspeed was about 100 knots. FDR
data also showed that the roll angle reached 105° right wing down before the airplane began to
roll back to the left and the stick pusher activated a second time (about 2216:40). At the time, the
airplane’s pitch angle was -1°.


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