Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1374319)

No kidding.

If you say "give it back! Let Pinnacle have it back" you ought to be

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...eatsupKyle.jpg

BTW... 80ktsclamp?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...Ks_sadYzynrv9f

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1374339)

I need a distraction from waiting for the award.

Here, let's try a song:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1374327)

I bet a 9100# or 05/2000 hire as the most senior 717B.

I bet #3800 or 1990/1987 hire as the most senior 717A.

Most junior 717A........ hmmmm.... north of 7900 so a 1997/1998 hire?

I'll bet a 717+ on each of those, a 717+++ if I parlay.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1374327)

I bet a 9100# or 05/2000 hire as the most senior 717B.

I bet #3800 or 1990/1987 hire as the most senior 717A.

Most junior 717A........ hmmmm.... north of 7900 so a 1997/1998 hire?

I'll bet a 717+ on each of those, a 717+++ if I parlay.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1374243)

If the company can shave 3 percent off the block times it equates to about a 2 percent decrease in manning. They are not the same because you have to factor in reserves, vacation and other forms of credit and pay. Anything that reduces block time reduces pilot jobs. In the end the number of pilots Delta needs is based on block time plus credit divided by the number of pilots and the hours the contract permits them to fly.
The RJ mantra about job loss certainly has some truth but the reality is that the massive job loss from 2001 to 2007 at Delta was mostly work rule generated. In fact we had the same number of pilot block hours in June of 01 as we had in June of 07. Yes the fleet was smaller but we had shifted a large number of aircraft to international where they flew more hours per day and often were relief or even double crewed. What changed was the average pilot went from 600 block hours a year to 800. Thats a staggering 25% improvement in productivity.
The sad reality however it that with the productivity SW generated per pilot and their rise to the largest US domestic airline it was probably not possible for Delta to ever compete with the work rules we had in place at one time. Bow Wave and Spill back were both tremendous quality of life items and bow wave in particular protected a huge number of jobs. One of the best quotes I once heard was your have a union for two reasons. To protect you from the company and to protect you from your fellow pilots. With the elimination of bow wave and cash paid each month for each hour flown utilization has soared. I know the ALPA haters will jump on this post and say DALPA failed us by allowing what we have today but again the reality is that as a airline Delta was not going to survive with the productivity level we once had. SWA drove a stake right though the heart of the good old days of pilot lifestyles.

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 1374300)

Bite your tongue! God after all the talk about getting our flying back I hope no one ever lets this cross their mind. I rather us do it in the 717 than an rj, all I hope is we hire soon so the new hires can do it! :D

Originally Posted by Flamer (Post 1374206)

You have almost figured out what is going on. Seat lock a bunch of guys on the lowest paying equipment for the next few years with emminent known secret hiring. Then bring in new hires on larger equipment out of seniority to fly the larger equipment. Saves money and reduces the overall training footprint in the long run. Know where has this been seen before? Oh yeah, here. In 2008 when new hires were going to the ER. People's memory are so short and mgt is counting on that as always.

Then, just as the lock is expirining a new contract will be in negotiations with another "great deal" for the bottom half of the list.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1374346)

There's a lot of truth in all that. There is no doubt that productivity is the lifeblood of capitalism. We can't just go around demanding massive additional staffing for the same amount of flying. Triple dip scams look great on paper but they are the dumbest ways possible to bargain for our piece of the pie, or to even define the size of that piece to begin with. It boggles my mind when pilots think we can get some triple dipping touch drop vacation or OE release scam yet don't think that same effort should instead go to improved vacation credit for everyone and agressively going after flying/scope/JV's etc as well as greatly improving rigs across the board that allow and encourage us to be productive but in a way that benefits us more.

Back to the original point, gate latency efforts will likely eliminate at least a couple hundred jobs once the new block times are averaged into the system in a year or so, espeically as we transition to more short haul/high cycle flying where that effort is more often a factor. By then we may or may not be hiring, but even if we are it will be less. Once that plank is nailed firmly in place, watch for an effort to go to wheel spin, etc. To avoid D-0 being trashed, it will just become SOP to push D minus X minutes. Problem solved, pilot block hours take another hit.