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Originally Posted by GunshipGuy
(Post 1380112)
Highly Trained Negotiating Pilots: Well, if you're sure.
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Originally Posted by iaflyer
(Post 1379958)
How are we being "fleeced"?
In all fairness...the company has always treated me fairly on small matters such as family emergencies, etc. But it's the company's job to try to fleece us on big things like pay. We are a cost unit, a liability. If they can get us to work for $15/hour, they owe it to their shareholders to do so. Doesn't help when ALPA's in the bag for the company. It's on us to get every penny we can. |
Originally Posted by Rudder
(Post 1380125)
It was over 5 years ago that our pensions were bought out for pennies on the dollar and we took over a 40% pay cut, but just recently we lost a third of our profit sharing and gave work rule concessions, to make the most recent TA "mostly" cost neutral. Were these the continuous pay raises you speak of?
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Originally Posted by flyallnite
(Post 1380109)
The easy way out is to show guys that they can make more money by working more. A majority of DAL pilots voted for exactly that. And that's what we've all got now. The final step by management is making sure that everybody works as much as possible. That can be done in two ways- by making staffing adjustments which make dropping or swapping impossible, and then by increasing the ALV's to the point where you have no choice but to fly the whole line every month, month in and month out, for the rest of your career. By keeping pay increases below the cost of living adjustments, and by increasing health care expenses, the average line pilot now feels more pressure than ever to just suck it up and work more. Until we have a real sea change at the top of ALPA, this downward cycle in our careers will just persist. It's too easy to buy off on a small raise, a veiled and so far false promise of growth. Not enough pilots are willing to step up and hold our reps feet to the fire and demand more. You say there isn't enough money? You say that now we have to give the FA's raises? I want FedEx PLUS in 2015. If my reps say that isn't possible, then I'm going to be signing a card with a union who believes it is and is at least willing to go to bat for it.
Also, a union that won't accept an idiot bureaucrat's idea of what kind of cutlery is safe to bring aboard an airliner when even the CEO of said company is on record as being against the changes.... /rant |
nah still nevermind...
I can't make a funny out of the latest delta flight com... :D... but there is something that is bugging me. |
Originally Posted by Rudder
(Post 1380125)
It was over 5 years ago that our pensions were bought out for pennies on the dollar and we took over a 40% pay cut, but just recently we lost a third of our profit sharing and gave work rule concessions, to make the most recent TA "mostly" cost neutral. Were these the continuous pay raises you speak of?
I don't deny what happened in the past, but that was under very different circumstances, the company had the pilots up against a wall with a gun threatening to shoot. (1113c) The people who say our latest contract is cost neutral are kidding themselves. I don't care if it's cost neutral to the company - what else are they going to say to the press - "we're going to take it in the shorts from the pilots with these pay raises"? The cost neutral part is that they aren't paying for RJ engine mx and giving it to us. I am making 15% more this Feb than I was making last Feb (pay raise and higher reserve guarantee). I believe we've gotten pay raises every year since 2008. In fact, in 2012 we got two. 1/1/09 - 5% 1/1/10 - 4% 1/1/11 - 4% 1/1/12 - 4% 7/1/12 - 4% 1/1/13 - 8.8% 1/1/14 - 3% 1/1/15 - 3% That's 35.8% in 7 years, 5% a year. Any other airlines out there gotten this? |
Originally Posted by iaflyer
(Post 1380178)
That's 35.8% in 7 years, 5% a year. Any other airlines out there gotten this? As soon as we accept for compensation cheesy compliments, high-grade eyewash, and empty promises instead of more money and more time off, this career is toast. oh, wait. We've already done that. |
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1380153)
Pensions? SD's assertion that we'd hire in 2012 after passing the TA?
In all fairness...the company has always treated me fairly on small matters such as family emergencies, etc. But it's the company's job to try to fleece us on big things like pay. We are a cost unit, a liability. If they can get us to work for $15/hour, they owe it to their shareholders to do so. Doesn't help when ALPA's in the bag for the company. It's on us to get every penny we can. The company isn't trying to fleece us on pay - their goal (and requirement) is to run a profitable company. To do so year in and year out they need to pay "market rates". Sure, the company would like to charge $1000 for every seat - boy, the company would make money like crazy and fly big airplanes everywhere and pay everyone gobs of money. But they can't when the market rates for an airline seat is lower. Same thing with our salaries - like it or not, there is a market rate for pilots. So much pay and so much flying for that pay. Airlines like American, United, USAirways, and yes, Spirit, Southwest and Alligent all factor into that figure - both in dollar amount and productivity. Any businessman will tell you that any company has to increase productivity to survive - other companies are getting better each year. If a company doesn't keep up, it find it's costs high and products shoddy. Southwest and Spirit set the bar for efficiency. Calling Southwest a "Low Cost Carrier" is incorrect (as we all know) - what they really are (or used to be, they are trending away from that) is a "High Efficiency Carrier". We have to get closer to their flying productivity in order to be able to compete. Hence - more pay for us but also more productivity. Remember when we were all discussing what a possible TA might be - and people wanted Southwest pay? People said "Be careful wishing for that - the junior people might not like the consequences" - because if we got SWA pay right away, we'd also have to take Southwest efficiencies - which would result in a goodly percentage of extra people at the bottom of our list. |
Originally Posted by iaflyer
(Post 1380199)
To do so year in and year out they need to pay "market rates".
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1380198)
I don't buy that argument for a second. If management wants to collect their bonuses for leading the "best" airline, they'll have to pay a premium to get the "best" labor.
Like it or not, we're all tied to Delta. Everyone made a choice when they got hired at the original airlines. Whether Western, Republic, North Central, Hughes Airwest, Southern, Pan Am, Northwest, Mesaba, Compass or Delta (did I forget anyone) - we've all ended up here. When it's time for a rise, ALPA does the best they can with the tools we have, the market conditions at the time of negotiations and political winds. Sometimes it's a ****ty deal like after 9/11, othertimes it's a decent deal like the ones we just got. Sometimes it's a home run like C2K. Those circumstances change each time we're up for a new contract - and comparing one against the other just doesn't make sense. |
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