Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-09-2013, 12:27 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom
I also find it ironic that you defend the great sacrifices that poor Lee Moak made by having to move to the Washington D.C. area.
What is ironic is that the will of the pilots who Lee Moak serves is dismissed as "populist."
Originally Posted by TOGA LK
100 votes and this crud is over with!
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 04-09-2013 at 12:43 PM.
04-09-2013, 12:28 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Okay, so if Delta forced you to live and work in a city other than where you live for 4 years, would you expect to be reimbursed for that or would you just maintain two households on your own dime? Do you count the cost of the hotels you stay in on layovers as compensation? How about transportation to and from the hotels? How about training expense for recurrent? What about per diem and meals that you get on the airplane, are you adding that up?
This whole compensation thing is just a bunch of crap. Much of the compensation is reimbursement for housing expense, car expense, and many other expenses, something that anyone would expect that is forced to spend most of their time away from home for a short TDY. All of those items listed above get charged to the "compensation" of the President when much of it is reimbursement for expenses incurred. If he has to host a party for Congressman and is reimbursed for the expense, guess what it shows up as "compensation." The ALPA President works every day of the year without fail. The best part of my job is that I fly my trip, go home and forget about Delta until my next sign in. Lee never gets that kind of break.
It just brings up this whole populist argument that has been the staple of internet boards for a long time now. I bet if you go on some forum for gate agents or mechanics, they talk about what a bunch of overpaid underworked prima donas that Delta pilots are. It is all a matter of perspective. I am constantly surprised by pilots that then buy into this whole populism crap. Go out into the real world and let everyone know how you just can't get by on $250,000 a year and see what comes your way. Are you then going to ask for a pay cut?
This whole compensation thing is just a bunch of crap. Much of the compensation is reimbursement for housing expense, car expense, and many other expenses, something that anyone would expect that is forced to spend most of their time away from home for a short TDY. All of those items listed above get charged to the "compensation" of the President when much of it is reimbursement for expenses incurred. If he has to host a party for Congressman and is reimbursed for the expense, guess what it shows up as "compensation." The ALPA President works every day of the year without fail. The best part of my job is that I fly my trip, go home and forget about Delta until my next sign in. Lee never gets that kind of break.
It just brings up this whole populist argument that has been the staple of internet boards for a long time now. I bet if you go on some forum for gate agents or mechanics, they talk about what a bunch of overpaid underworked prima donas that Delta pilots are. It is all a matter of perspective. I am constantly surprised by pilots that then buy into this whole populism crap. Go out into the real world and let everyone know how you just can't get by on $250,000 a year and see what comes your way. Are you then going to ask for a pay cut?
04-09-2013, 12:41 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Commander in Chief using our military for short term political gain. Guess it is less harmful than declaring a useless war or firing a bunch of missiles at nomads.
04-09-2013, 12:50 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by TOGA LK
100 votes and this crud is over with!
04-09-2013, 02:07 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
For every ALPA apologist, there is an ALPA antagonist.
Just like US politics, I find the radicals to be the most disconnected from the actual issues as they become infatuated with their own selfish causes.
Regarding union politics, are we not allowed, as a dues paying members, to criticize and/or question the direction of our association from time to time?
My major gripe with union politics is much the same as it is with governmental politics regarding the chasmal disconnect between an elected official and the constituents to whom they were chosen to represent.
In my opinion, it is disingenuous to live like a king while many of the individuals you have been chosen to represent are left suffering under slave wages and menial work rules. So I'm clear here, I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the many regional pilots out there who have been scraping by for years now.
There is a very apparent conflict of interest that lives within ALPA wherein certain members benefit at the expense of other members. Scope degradation and age 65 are just two examples that come to mind.
These complaints are directed more towards ALPA as a national organization and in no way is directed to DALPA. I have not had a bad experience with any of the reps I have dealt with, even though I may not agree with them on certain issues from time to time.
Just like US politics, I find the radicals to be the most disconnected from the actual issues as they become infatuated with their own selfish causes.
Regarding union politics, are we not allowed, as a dues paying members, to criticize and/or question the direction of our association from time to time?
My major gripe with union politics is much the same as it is with governmental politics regarding the chasmal disconnect between an elected official and the constituents to whom they were chosen to represent.
In my opinion, it is disingenuous to live like a king while many of the individuals you have been chosen to represent are left suffering under slave wages and menial work rules. So I'm clear here, I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the many regional pilots out there who have been scraping by for years now.
There is a very apparent conflict of interest that lives within ALPA wherein certain members benefit at the expense of other members. Scope degradation and age 65 are just two examples that come to mind.
These complaints are directed more towards ALPA as a national organization and in no way is directed to DALPA. I have not had a bad experience with any of the reps I have dealt with, even though I may not agree with them on certain issues from time to time.
04-09-2013, 02:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by newKnow
One of the best college basketball games I have ever seen. Ever.
04-09-2013, 02:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by DeadHead
For every ALPA apologist, there is an ALPA antagonist.
Just like US politics, I find the radicals to be the most disconnected from the actual issues as they become infatuated with their own selfish causes.
Regarding union politics, are we not allowed, as a dues paying members, to criticize and/or question the direction of our association from time to time?
My major gripe with union politics is much the same as it is with governmental politics regarding the chasmal disconnect between an elected official and the constituents to whom they were chosen to represent.
In my opinion, it is disingenuous to live like a king while many of the individuals you have been chosen to represent are left suffering under slave wages and menial work rules. So I'm clear here, I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the many regional pilots out there who have been scraping by for years now.
There is a very apparent conflict of interest that lives within ALPA wherein certain members benefit at the expense of other members. Scope degradation and age 65 are just two examples that come to mind.
These complaints are directed more towards ALPA as a national organization and in no way is directed to DALPA. I have not had a bad experience with any of the reps I have dealt with, even though I may not agree with them on certain issues from time to time.
Just like US politics, I find the radicals to be the most disconnected from the actual issues as they become infatuated with their own selfish causes.
Regarding union politics, are we not allowed, as a dues paying members, to criticize and/or question the direction of our association from time to time?
My major gripe with union politics is much the same as it is with governmental politics regarding the chasmal disconnect between an elected official and the constituents to whom they were chosen to represent.
In my opinion, it is disingenuous to live like a king while many of the individuals you have been chosen to represent are left suffering under slave wages and menial work rules. So I'm clear here, I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the many regional pilots out there who have been scraping by for years now.
There is a very apparent conflict of interest that lives within ALPA wherein certain members benefit at the expense of other members. Scope degradation and age 65 are just two examples that come to mind.
These complaints are directed more towards ALPA as a national organization and in no way is directed to DALPA. I have not had a bad experience with any of the reps I have dealt with, even though I may not agree with them on certain issues from time to time.
04-09-2013, 02:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Are these Delta pilots posting here or are their teenage kids posting for them.
When you are required to travel for business, the business pays for it. When you layover in a hotel Delta pays for it. When you take a van to get to the hotel Delta pays for it. When you take a soda pop from the galley Delta pays for it. When you get a crew meal on an international leg, Delta pays for it at the same time they are paying you per diem. When you go to training Delta pays for the hotel, the simulator, your meals. In fact, even if you live in Atlanta Delta still pays for a hotel.
No one forced you to take this job, so you should just shut up and quit complaining and accept anything that is handed to you. Right? Isn't that the next logical step in your argument.
These arguments are laughable. The ALPA President is required to travel and stay in Washington. He needs a place to entertain guests, sorry but that is the way Washington works. ALPA reimburses him for these expenses that are required by his job. They are not extra income. He also leases a car, the exact same car that he drives at home. He is reimbursed for those expenses.
You can turn any of these stupid arguments that you guys bring up here and turn right on their heads and use them against you. Nobody forced you to work for Delta, nobody is forcing you to stay at Delta so shut up or quit. How does that feel?
Grow up.
When you are required to travel for business, the business pays for it. When you layover in a hotel Delta pays for it. When you take a van to get to the hotel Delta pays for it. When you take a soda pop from the galley Delta pays for it. When you get a crew meal on an international leg, Delta pays for it at the same time they are paying you per diem. When you go to training Delta pays for the hotel, the simulator, your meals. In fact, even if you live in Atlanta Delta still pays for a hotel.
No one forced you to take this job, so you should just shut up and quit complaining and accept anything that is handed to you. Right? Isn't that the next logical step in your argument.
These arguments are laughable. The ALPA President is required to travel and stay in Washington. He needs a place to entertain guests, sorry but that is the way Washington works. ALPA reimburses him for these expenses that are required by his job. They are not extra income. He also leases a car, the exact same car that he drives at home. He is reimbursed for those expenses.
You can turn any of these stupid arguments that you guys bring up here and turn right on their heads and use them against you. Nobody forced you to work for Delta, nobody is forcing you to stay at Delta so shut up or quit. How does that feel?
Grow up.
Nobody forced us to work for Delta. We are forced, however, to be ALPA members. That's fine. I accept that gladly. Just don't spend my money on swanky meals and expensive wine. That's a fair request don't you think?
In fact, I recommend that ALPA stay in the same hotels that we stay in, are reimbursed for the same perdiem, and receive the same crew "meals" that we get. Maybe they'd be a little more connected with the membership they serve.
04-09-2013, 02:35 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
Originally Posted by DeadHead
For every ALPA apologist, there is an ALPA antagonist.
Just like US politics, I find the radicals to be the most disconnected from the actual issues as they become infatuated with their own selfish causes.
Regarding union politics, are we not allowed, as a dues paying members, to criticize and/or question the direction of our association from time to time?
My major gripe with union politics is much the same as it is with governmental politics regarding the chasmal disconnect between an elected official and the constituents to whom they were chosen to represent.
In my opinion, it is disingenuous to live like a king while many of the individuals you have been chosen to represent are left suffering under slave wages and menial work rules. So I'm clear here, I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the many regional pilots out there who have been scraping by for years now.
There is a very apparent conflict of interest that lives within ALPA wherein certain members benefit at the expense of other members. Scope degradation and age 65 are just two examples that come to mind.
These complaints are directed more towards ALPA as a national organization and in no way is directed to DALPA. I have not had a bad experience with any of the reps I have dealt with, even though I may not agree with them on certain issues from time to time.
Just like US politics, I find the radicals to be the most disconnected from the actual issues as they become infatuated with their own selfish causes.
Regarding union politics, are we not allowed, as a dues paying members, to criticize and/or question the direction of our association from time to time?
My major gripe with union politics is much the same as it is with governmental politics regarding the chasmal disconnect between an elected official and the constituents to whom they were chosen to represent.
In my opinion, it is disingenuous to live like a king while many of the individuals you have been chosen to represent are left suffering under slave wages and menial work rules. So I'm clear here, I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the many regional pilots out there who have been scraping by for years now.
There is a very apparent conflict of interest that lives within ALPA wherein certain members benefit at the expense of other members. Scope degradation and age 65 are just two examples that come to mind.
These complaints are directed more towards ALPA as a national organization and in no way is directed to DALPA. I have not had a bad experience with any of the reps I have dealt with, even though I may not agree with them on certain issues from time to time.
I'm trying to place myself in that situation--eating like a million dollar celebrity or Goldman Sachs Exec, but on someone else's dime (that someone being the guy who's forced to pay a nice amount out of his hard earned pay every year to have me represent him). I'm sure the "This is how it's done" wink from my fellow officials would be tempting, but if I didn't take a stand and step back from the trough and say "This isn't right.", then I don't think I could look myself in the mirror.
04-09-2013, 02:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Are these Delta pilots posting here or are their teenage kids posting for them.
When you are required to travel for business, the business pays for it. When you layover in a hotel Delta pays for it. When you take a van to get to the hotel Delta pays for it. When you take a soda pop from the galley Delta pays for it. When you get a crew meal on an international leg, Delta pays for it at the same time they are paying you per diem. When you go to training Delta pays for the hotel, the simulator, your meals. In fact, even if you live in Atlanta Delta still pays for a hotel.
No one forced you to take this job, so you should just shut up and quit complaining and accept anything that is handed to you. Right? Isn't that the next logical step in your argument.
These arguments are laughable. The ALPA President is required to travel and stay in Washington. He needs a place to entertain guests, sorry but that is the way Washington works. ALPA reimburses him for these expenses that are required by his job. They are not extra income. He also leases a car, the exact same car that he drives at home. He is reimbursed for those expenses.
You can turn any of these stupid arguments that you guys bring up here and turn right on their heads and use them against you. Nobody forced you to work for Delta, nobody is forcing you to stay at Delta so shut up or quit. How does that feel?
Grow up.
When you are required to travel for business, the business pays for it. When you layover in a hotel Delta pays for it. When you take a van to get to the hotel Delta pays for it. When you take a soda pop from the galley Delta pays for it. When you get a crew meal on an international leg, Delta pays for it at the same time they are paying you per diem. When you go to training Delta pays for the hotel, the simulator, your meals. In fact, even if you live in Atlanta Delta still pays for a hotel.
No one forced you to take this job, so you should just shut up and quit complaining and accept anything that is handed to you. Right? Isn't that the next logical step in your argument.
These arguments are laughable. The ALPA President is required to travel and stay in Washington. He needs a place to entertain guests, sorry but that is the way Washington works. ALPA reimburses him for these expenses that are required by his job. They are not extra income. He also leases a car, the exact same car that he drives at home. He is reimbursed for those expenses.
You can turn any of these stupid arguments that you guys bring up here and turn right on their heads and use them against you. Nobody forced you to work for Delta, nobody is forcing you to stay at Delta so shut up or quit. How does that feel?
Grow up.
There is another who sometimes posts on this forum who essentially says "commuting is a choice" or "move to where you work and you won't have to commute any more." Is that not what happens with the ALPA President? I he not "commuting" to DC? I understand the need to have a place to entertain etc. From a previous post it looks like ALPA is willing to spend money on nice places to eat... So entertaining doesn't necessarily have to be at a house... Doesn't ALPA reimburse the President for these expenses? My point is, maybe the ALPA president should be required to move to DC if that's where the job takes him... If not then maybe he should bear some expenses of commuting like line pilots do.
I understand that there are expenses he has that others don't. Essentially my argument is that, if he decides to maintain 2 households and is a "commuter," should he not bear some of that cost??
Fire away!
Denny
Edit: I see now that this point was brought up......sooooo......"what he said!"
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