Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-18-2013, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DARR31
So do RJ pilots really pop it off the runway, or is that just a rumor?
04-18-2013, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Elvis90
Prayers for the victims in West near Waco. Seems like everyone is pitching in to help.
Explosion hits fertilizer plant north of Waco, Texas - CNN.com
Explosion hits fertilizer plant north of Waco, Texas - CNN.com
04-18-2013, 04:33 AM
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Guys still talk about the SVO 763 tail strike. I hear it periodically still.
BTW, here is a pic http://aviaforum.ru/showpost.php?p=276495&postcount=523.
Makes you wonder about the Aeromexico 762
BTW, here is a pic http://aviaforum.ru/showpost.php?p=276495&postcount=523.
Makes you wonder about the Aeromexico 762
04-18-2013, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DARR31
I've heard this story before and would like to know if he was an RJ driver as the rumor goes. The reason I ask is that I am one of those 07' hires that went to the ER as my first plane at Delta. I am on the 737 now and get a lot of Captains I fly with in the opening breifing telling me not to rotate fast like I am in an RJ. Funny thing is I have never flown an RJ as I was a KC-135 pilot prior Delta. I guess being in my 40s and looking like I'm in my 20s is not best with this group...
So do RJ pilots really pop it off the runway, or is that just a rumor?
So do RJ pilots really pop it off the runway, or is that just a rumor?
Same thing, just the other day was DH on an A320. Rotated, and BANG- like the hardest, most instantaneous pitch up to 20 degrees I've ever felt in any airplane. Scared the bejesus out of me and everyone else. Thought a truck was on the runway or something. Thank God we didn't plug one at V2, or we'd roll right over for sure. Take it easy out there!!!
04-18-2013, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DARR31
I've heard this story before and would like to know if he was an RJ driver as the rumor goes. The reason I ask is that I am one of those 07' hires that went to the ER as my first plane at Delta. I am on the 737 now and get a lot of Captains I fly with in the opening breifing telling me not to rotate fast like I am in an RJ. Funny thing is I have never flown an RJ as I was a KC-135 pilot prior Delta. I guess being in my 40s and looking like I'm in my 20s is not best with this group...
So do RJ pilots really pop it off the runway, or is that just a rumor?
So do RJ pilots really pop it off the runway, or is that just a rumor?
Rumor. I fly with quite a few guys that make negative comments about rj's and their pilots. After awhile I tell them I'm a product of that beer can with wings. It's funny to watch them dig themselves out of hole. Lol. Rj's had a negative affect on mainline pilots careers. I guess it's only natural to harbor resentment towards anything rj.
04-18-2013, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DARR31
I've heard this story before and would like to know if he was an RJ driver as the rumor goes. The reason I ask is that I am one of those 07' hires that went to the ER as my first plane at Delta. I am on the 737 now and get a lot of Captains I fly with in the opening breifing telling me not to rotate fast like I am in an RJ. Funny thing is I have never flown an RJ as I was a KC-135 pilot prior Delta. I guess being in my 40s and looking like I'm in my 20s is not best with this group...
So do RJ pilots really pop it off the runway, or is that just a rumor?
So do RJ pilots really pop it off the runway, or is that just a rumor?
I had a near-death experience as a young AF guy due to rotating a T-38 too fast, so I'm particularly sensitve to this.
04-18-2013, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
They shouldn't. Variations of the CRJ wing have had something like four fatal wingtip stall, loss of control events. They did not have to worry about tail strikes, but the supercritical (likes M.82 to .85) wing with no slats is a ground lover. (which is why most RJ guys shrug off descriptions of no flap T38 flying)
I'm a former corporate jet, RJ puke and instructors have been telling me to rotate faster ever since I got to Delta.
Like most of the experienced hands; it is best to slowly rotate to the appropriate pitch attitude and let it fly off unless you're not seeing red and white lights any more.
Some very good friends of Carl and mine are dead due to over aggressive rotation to nail V2. They were doing aircraft certification work, but the lessons they learned are worth repeating. Importantly; stalls in ground effect are not well documented and are not tested. While the Boeing fleet is generally limited by it's geometry (tail strikes) the Douglas fleet is not. Usually the stalling AOA in ground effect is 15 to 20% less than in free air and the propagation is instant and ugly. Especially when cross controlled the Douglas fleet did not leave me with the warm and fuzzy that the wing had a whole lot more left to give.
Guess what other airplane the folks that gave our friends the bad data worked on ... Again, my procedure in Douglas is fast as I can justify until the Captain begins to complain, then back it off 1 knot.
I'm a former corporate jet, RJ puke and instructors have been telling me to rotate faster ever since I got to Delta.
Like most of the experienced hands; it is best to slowly rotate to the appropriate pitch attitude and let it fly off unless you're not seeing red and white lights any more.
Some very good friends of Carl and mine are dead due to over aggressive rotation to nail V2. They were doing aircraft certification work, but the lessons they learned are worth repeating. Importantly; stalls in ground effect are not well documented and are not tested. While the Boeing fleet is generally limited by it's geometry (tail strikes) the Douglas fleet is not. Usually the stalling AOA in ground effect is 15 to 20% less than in free air and the propagation is instant and ugly. Especially when cross controlled the Douglas fleet did not leave me with the warm and fuzzy that the wing had a whole lot more left to give.
Guess what other airplane the folks that gave our friends the bad data worked on ... Again, my procedure in Douglas is fast as I can justify until the Captain begins to complain, then back it off 1 knot.
On the other hand, watching rotation through the HUD, my FO's scare the shxt out me on a regular basis.
04-18-2013, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by flyallnite
IIRC he was ex-mil heavy driver. Just a victim of negative training I'd say. Doin' what he was told. Felt really bad for the guy, but I think it all ended well for him. Dead on the centerline though, took out several centerline lights. Russkies were ****ed we hurt their airport. Dept. of State got involved.
Same thing, just the other day was DH on an A320. Rotated, and BANG- like the hardest, most instantaneous pitch up to 20 degrees I've ever felt in any airplane. Scared the bejesus out of me and everyone else. Thought a truck was on the runway or something. Thank God we didn't plug one at V2, or we'd roll right over for sure. Take it easy out there!!!
Same thing, just the other day was DH on an A320. Rotated, and BANG- like the hardest, most instantaneous pitch up to 20 degrees I've ever felt in any airplane. Scared the bejesus out of me and everyone else. Thought a truck was on the runway or something. Thank God we didn't plug one at V2, or we'd roll right over for sure. Take it easy out there!!!
04-18-2013, 04:55 AM
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BTW, I got in this discussion because I agreed with Carl's response to the "3 degrees/second works every time" generic statements, but someone else brought up a good point: I don't think it's constructive to discuss anything specific to our airline that can be misinterpreted.
Come to think of it, there is a lot of content that's migrated onto APC that belongs behind closed doors. It always surprises me that other airlines have a much smaller footprint on this site, and reveal very little here. I attribute it to the fact our own forum had become useless.
ALPA forum regulars tell me the place is starting to be tolerable again, with less personal back-and-forth with the Comm Chairman, and less donut hyperbole. The new Comm guy is trying to foster a little more discussion. Maybe it's time to be a little more selective on our topics of discussion, and use each venue in the manner it works best? APC is definitely best for revealing underboob, for example.
I'm not suggesting bailing out on the L&G, but I think both venues could be improved if some of the great posters here would participate there, on topics that don't belong in the public eye.
Respectfully,
Sink r8
Come to think of it, there is a lot of content that's migrated onto APC that belongs behind closed doors. It always surprises me that other airlines have a much smaller footprint on this site, and reveal very little here. I attribute it to the fact our own forum had become useless.
ALPA forum regulars tell me the place is starting to be tolerable again, with less personal back-and-forth with the Comm Chairman, and less donut hyperbole. The new Comm guy is trying to foster a little more discussion. Maybe it's time to be a little more selective on our topics of discussion, and use each venue in the manner it works best? APC is definitely best for revealing underboob, for example.
I'm not suggesting bailing out on the L&G, but I think both venues could be improved if some of the great posters here would participate there, on topics that don't belong in the public eye.
Respectfully,
Sink r8
04-18-2013, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
Never flew an RJ, but I spend a lot of time on their jumpseats. Small sample size, of course, but it seems that the really junior FO's really rip it off the runway. The last guy I flew home with scared the crap out of me with his rotation rate. The captain actually "counseled" him about it.
I had a near-death experience as a young AF guy due to rotating a T-38 too fast, so I'm particularly sensitve to this.
I had a near-death experience as a young AF guy due to rotating a T-38 too fast, so I'm particularly sensitve to this.
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