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Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Old 04-08-2013, 11:13 AM
  #128071  
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Originally Posted by SailorJerry View Post
Check your 4 walls. One of them, lucky for you, has a door. Maybe Emirates or JetBlue would suit you better.
I knew I'd get one of these comments. I'm on reserve and the last three trips I've flown either the Capt or the other F/O has spent several hours complaining about the quality of our product versus other airlines. Most of you can figure out which part of quality I'm talking about. I'm a positive guy but I can't help but letting in the negativity when you see their product versus ours ( not just Delta either but other US airlines as well). So there's the problem, but what kind of solution can we offer? We can't...with equality here and litigate that, our product may never catch up to theirs ever again. When I'm with our crew waiting to go through security, where our people look like a rag tag bunch with 1,000 different uniform combinations, I see the competition coming through looking 100% better. I'm not focusing on their age/weight/sex, more the sharpness of their uniforms since they all look the same. You can't help looking at the other crews because they just look better!! I'm just frustrated like everyone else.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:22 AM
  #128072  
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Originally Posted by DeadHead View Post
No disrespect ACL, but ALPA national are the ones who should be supporting the PAC. Perhaps lee moak can take a pay cut and contribute to the cause.

In my opinion, our leaders at ALPA national are no different then the corrupt CEOs who gut contracts under bankruptcy while deploying their golden parachutes.

Is it too much to ask that our government just look out for American employees without needing to have their proverbial wheels consistently greased. (I know stupid question)
"ALPA National" cannot put your dues money into a PAC, it has to be individual contributions.

Lee Moak and all the National officers DO contribute to ALPA PAC. Our Reps contribute to ALPA PAC. We ALL need to contribute to the PAC.

I give $42 per month.

A mere 50 cents per credit hour and you too can help fight the forces that are attempting to destroy YOUR career every day!

Alpa > ALPA PAC

It stinks that this is the way it works, but wishing it wasn't like this won't change reality.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:23 AM
  #128073  
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Originally Posted by cni187 View Post
I knew I'd get one of these comments. I'm on reserve and the last three trips I've flown either the Capt or the other F/O has spent several hours complaining about the quality of our product versus other airlines. Most of you can figure out which part of quality I'm talking about. I'm a positive guy but I can't help but letting in the negativity when you see their product versus ours ( not just Delta either but other US airlines as well). So there's the problem, but what kind of solution can we offer? We can't...with equality here and litigate that, our product may never catch up to theirs ever again. When I'm with our crew waiting to go through security, where our people look like a rag tag bunch with 1,000 different uniform combinations, I see the competition coming through looking 100% better. I'm not focusing on their age/weight/sex, more the sharpness of their uniforms since they all look the same. You can't help looking at the other crews because they just look better!! I'm just frustrated like everyone else.
Three words: Swimming pool + raft!

Not kidding. Also, who can explain what this legendary "come back after 5 pm" program is that happens when door training, etc, doesn't go well?
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:23 AM
  #128074  
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Originally Posted by DeadHead View Post
No disrespect ACL, but ALPA national are the ones who should be supporting the PAC. Perhaps lee moak can take a pay cut and contribute to the cause.

In my opinion, our leaders at ALPA national are no different then the corrupt CEOs who gut contracts under bankruptcy while deploying their golden parachutes.

Is it too much to ask that our government just look out for American employees without needing to have their proverbial wheels consistently greased. (I know stupid question)
Washington works the way Washington works. Play by their rules or sit on the sidelines. My Congressional Representatives are the perfect example of this. Money talks. Period.

As for Lee Moak. That LM2 shows total compensation, reimbursements and salary.

Lee makes good money, no doubt about it. If it was possible I would tell you to shadow any one of the four National Officers for a few days. Its an impressive and grueling schedule to say the least.

You also need to take note that the BOD sets his pay, and the BOD has reduced his pay and direct allotments for housing, car etc. Pay has been cut twice, the metric that was used was changed, and it is no longer a set dollar amount reimbursement for housing, car, etc. It is up to an amount and only the dollar amount used.

On National v PAC. Two separate organizations. They do work closely together, but PAC only gets its money from donations. It also is NOT, a bunch of pilots trying to justify FPL. The people ALPA-PAC employs are professional lobbyist that sole goal is to identify issues, start grass roots efforts, and keep the drive organized. You win some and you lose some, no doubt about that. I had a chance to listen to Michael and Zack speak and frankly, I am extremely impressed with the entire team National has assembled.

I do not have to nor do I agree on every issue. One those I will debate, study, debate again, and if needed table it to get other items done.

This EK announcement is just the start. If you have friends on FB that work for EK read their exuberance. All of my friends that work there want to come back here, but can't because comparable jobs are not here, so they stay and rejoice when an announcement like this is made even though it kills their long term goals. Look at your long term goals.

Does doing nothing wrt to this help those goals?

Does it hurt to give 42 bucks a month to ALPA-PAC? Its cheap insurance imo even if they get one or two items accomplished.

Does splintering and end fighting help us or hurt us?

Is it better to have one Nationally and Internationally Recognized name; ALPA, spearheading this issue with its pilots behind it, or is it better for 40 different unions loosely tied under CAPA have a better shot at stopping this?

To me the answers are simple.

I understand that it is very hard to look at the secular issues when one is hoping for better pay, better vacation, hiring, better hotels, better scope, and the list goes on. I totally get that. We have to work on both. The reality is that if the Federal Laws change and allow EK to to what they really want to do, the rest will not matter, because the airline we are flying for will be hard pressed to support its cost structure against an airlines that do not need to make a profit. They will be lucky to exist, or exist anywhere near the size and scope they are today. Look no further than Qantas. Don't think that will happen here? You DC Representatives think low fares will get them reelected unless they are reeducated. Who is going to do that reeducation?

Yep ALPA and ALPA-PAC.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:25 AM
  #128075  
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Originally Posted by DeadHead View Post
No disrespect ACL, but ALPA national are the ones who should be supporting the PAC. Perhaps lee moak can take a pay cut and contribute to the cause.

In my opinion, our leaders at ALPA national are no different then the corrupt CEOs who gut contracts under bankruptcy while deploying their golden parachutes.

Is it too much to ask that our government just look out for American employees without needing to have their proverbial wheels consistently greased. (I know stupid question)
Who is "ALPA national"? Do you mean the National Officers? I don't have any hard numbers, but I'd be willing to bet the participation rate is pretty near 100%.

The "Lee Moak is overpaid" bullet point is a completely different discussion.

It should be pointed out again that our Legislative Affairs guys have more clout when they can say they represent X number of ALPA pilots, etc. Put another way, the percentage of the pilot group that contributes is nearly as important as the AMOUNT that each pilot contributes.

If you don't want to put in $42/month, then start with $1 every paycheck. You'll never notice it, and it would bump our participation rate way up if half the guys that read this thread went and signed up.

As to your final point, yes it sucks that we can't count on our own politicians to look out for us. Unfortunately that's reality, and the best way to influence the outcome in our favor is to remain engaged, either directly or via proxy (ALPA PAC).

If you're even on the fence, go kick in $1/paycheck now and help out the effort. This Emirates route is just the beginning. All you need to do is look at their widebody order book.


ALPA PAC
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:06 PM
  #128076  
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Guys,

The article I just read about DL and Virgin Atlantic filing for antitrust immunity mentions some sort of 5-way tie up between AF/KLM, Alitalia, DL, etc.

Is this how they are going to get around the out-of-balance deficit they have built up wrt Delta pilot flying? Just negotiate to reset the window when Virgin Atlantic is added?
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:08 PM
  #128077  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
Washington works the way Washington works. Play by their rules or sit on the sidelines. My Congressional Representatives are the perfect example of this. Money talks. Period.

As for Lee Moak. That LM2 shows total compensation, reimbursements and salary.

Lee makes good money, no doubt about it. If it was possible I would tell you to shadow any one of the four National Officers for a few days. Its an impressive and grueling schedule to say the least.

You also need to take note that the BOD sets his pay, and the BOD has reduced his pay and direct allotments for housing, car etc. Pay has been cut twice, the metric that was used was changed, and it is no longer a set dollar amount reimbursement for housing, car, etc. It is up to an amount and only the dollar amount used.

On National v PAC. Two separate organizations. They do work closely together, but PAC only gets its money from donations. It also is NOT, a bunch of pilots trying to justify FPL. The people ALPA-PAC employs are professional lobbyist that sole goal is to identify issues, start grass roots efforts, and keep the drive organized. You win some and you lose some, no doubt about that. I had a chance to listen to Michael and Zack speak and frankly, I am extremely impressed with the entire team National has assembled.

I do not have to nor do I agree on every issue. One those I will debate, study, debate again, and if needed table it to get other items done.

This EK announcement is just the start. If you have friends on FB that work for EK read their exuberance. All of my friends that work there want to come back here, but can't because comparable jobs are not here, so they stay and rejoice when an announcement like this is made even though it kills their long term goals. Look at your long term goals.

Does doing nothing wrt to this help those goals?

Does it hurt to give 42 bucks a month to ALPA-PAC? Its cheap insurance imo even if they get one or two items accomplished.

Does splintering and end fighting help us or hurt us?

Is it better to have one Nationally and Internationally Recognized name; ALPA, spearheading this issue with its pilots behind it, or is it better for 40 different unions loosely tied under CAPA have a better shot at stopping this?

To me the answers are simple.

I understand that it is very hard to look at the secular issues when one is hoping for better pay, better vacation, hiring, better hotels, better scope, and the list goes on. I totally get that. We have to work on both. The reality is that if the Federal Laws change and allow EK to to what they really want to do, the rest will not matter, because the airline we are flying for will be hard pressed to support its cost structure against an airlines that do not need to make a profit. They will be lucky to exist, or exist anywhere near the size and scope they are today. Look no further than Qantas. Don't think that will happen here? You DC Representatives think low fares will get them reelected unless they are reeducated. Who is going to do that reeducation?

Yep ALPA and ALPA-PAC.
ACL,

I certainly see the need for ALPA PAC, and please don't mistake my gripes regarding ALPA as means to support DPA. I'm clearly in support of DALPA over the DPA as far as credibility and professionalism goes.

I won't disparage or comment on the amount or quality of work done by ALPA national leaders such as lee moak. I will, however, express my displeasure with the amount they are compensated. Seeing as the president of the United States makes approximately $400,000/year, I find it somewhat hypocritical for the leader of a blue-collar labor organization to make make $500,000/yr. I find it egregious that a union leader makes more then the American president.

I'm a firm believer that a strong leader should lead by example.

I know I'm arguing two different points here, and your point is well taken. It behooves none of us to not support the PAC, and I will reconsider my position on that. I just think the direction of the PAC should come directly from ALPA national without the additional need of member donations.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:22 PM
  #128078  
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Originally Posted by DeadHead View Post
ACL,

I certainly see the need for ALPA PAC, and please don't mistake my gripes regarding ALPA as means to support DPA. I'm clearly in support of DALPA over the DPA as far as credibility and professionalism goes.

I won't disparage or comment on the amount or quality of work done by ALPA national leaders such as lee moak. I will, however, express my displeasure with the amount they are compensated. Seeing as the president of the United States makes approximately $400,000/year, I find it somewhat hypocritical for the leader of a blue-collar labor organization to make make $500,000/yr. I find it egregious that a union leader makes more then the American president.

I'm a firm believer that a strong leader should lead by example.

I know I'm arguing two different points here, and your point is well taken. It behooves none of us to not support the PAC, and I will reconsider my position on that. I just think the direction of the PAC should come directly from ALPA national without the additional need of member donations.

Money CANNOT come from National. It is a PAC; Political Action Committee. Money cannot come from the orginization. This holds true for all PAC's. It is true in the airlines, it is true in the highway safety industry and it is true with every other PAC. Its all those campaign laws. Money and support has to be outside of the organization. Look at all of those Super PAC's from both candidates last time. No money came from the campaigns.

Campaign finance in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The FEC and the Federal Campaign Finance Law Brochure



Salary Breakdown (2011)

  • Gross Salary: $398,846.00
  • Allowances: $0.00
  • Official Business: $36,273.00
  • Other Compensation: $105,289.00
  • Total Compensation: $540,408.00
Other compensation would be things like Medical, retirement, car, house, phone, dry cleaning, meals and the like. (Or per diem, not both) All of that is considered income by the IRS, but it not really income as we see it.



His Gross Salary is 398K, slight under what PROTUS makes.



That number is not pulled out of thin air either. It is a result of a mathematical formula that the BOD tweaked two and a half years ago.


What would a 7ERA/744A or 777A make here at DAL if you took his income, medical valuation, 401K and DC contribution, and then accounted for all the incidentals associated with the job? How about a FDX pilot? Its all part of the equation. That would be a apples to apples comparison to these LM2 numbers.



What the trigger for reimbursement is, is the our governing documents.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:25 PM
  #128079  
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Originally Posted by DeadHead View Post
ACL,

I certainly see the need for ALPA PAC, and please don't mistake my gripes regarding ALPA as means to support DPA. I'm clearly in support of DALPA over the DPA as far as credibility and professionalism goes.

I won't disparage or comment on the amount or quality of work done by ALPA national leaders such as lee moak. I will, however, express my displeasure with the amount they are compensated. Seeing as the president of the United States makes approximately $400,000/year, I find it somewhat hypocritical for the leader of a blue-collar labor organization to make make $500,000/yr. I find it egregious that a union leader makes more then the American president.

I'm a firm believer that a strong leader should lead by example.

I know I'm arguing two different points here, and your point is well taken. It behooves none of us to not support the PAC, and I will reconsider my position on that. I just think the direction of the PAC should come directly from ALPA national without the additional need of member donations.
Imagine the firestorm that would ensue if dues dollars were spent to support candidate X even if its just a pilot partisan effort.

It's separate for a good reason.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:27 PM
  #128080  
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Why in the world are you ALPA guys still spooled up about DPA?



Give it a rest. The donut guys are history.

You appear to be using them as an excuse for your own poor performance. Stop it.

You're only making it look like you're more worried about your "turf" and keeping the dues flowing than you are about the issues that really matter to the pilots you represent.
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