I mostly agree with your synopsis in general, although I think this particular route in question is all ALK (management) arrogance. They think their frictionless DL/AA networks are pure gravy and to a point they are right. It is causing them to, literally, bite the hand(s) that feed them though. I'd also add that I don't think AA envisions ALK's fantasy of an unlimited one sided relationship where ALK can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and grow for all eternity into the AA network. DL is just now starting to notice and is beginning the process of considering developing a focus group exploratory committee to review options for possibly one day fighting back. AA is too busy to deal with it right now. But ALK's fantasy won't manifest and if they don't merge with someone (which they probably will) then they will be in for a rude awakening in a few years.

They probably do think that. But there are now four 800+ lb. gorillas in the industry that won't just sit back forever and let one national airline play them all for fools forever. We need them in SEA to a point, but they need us even more. They get way more pax from us than we get from them and I'd venture to guess their AA relationship is similar. They won't be permitted to remain in endless growth mode forever, and any threat they could make would backfire in their faces big time.

Hmmmmm. So that's why there's a 10 knot tailwind limitation.

I knew I must have been doing something wrong. My next idea was to get them dry cleaned first.

$19? Must have been the size 46's with the bubble seat off the clearance rack. :D

you win. ....................................

Delta Air Lines naming deal to end at Milwaukee convention center

That didn't last long.

[QUOTE=Carl Spackler;1403184]No, it was literally a feet on the floor maneuver because using rudder at high alphas can turn Dutch Roll into a stall/spin situation really quickly.

Another misconception that this discredited AA briefing perpetuated is what you excerpted above:



Ailerons on swept wing transport aircraft are very effective at high alpha. Where they are not effective is at stall alphas and beyond because they are receiving disrupted airflow from the wing stall. Even this is mitigated in today's aircraft by wing twist or "washout angle". This is where the wing's angle of incidence is twisted lower as you approach the wing tip so that wing tips stall later than the rest of the wing which gives you good aileron control even when the rest of the wing is stalled. Conversely, rudder becomes decreasingly effective at high alphas because the rudder is increasingly blocked by the fuselage and receives turbulent airflow. Exactly the opposite of what this briefing asserted.

That AA briefing was a great example of a few training department guys going rogue and thinking they could apply F-4 Phantom flying qualities to a transport airplane without ever checking with the manufacturer or flight testing their theories. I recall the NTSB report being particularly scathing on this point.

Carl[/QUOTE


I am having flashbacks to reading "Fly the Wing" which I must have read about 10 times during my interviewing for an airline phase. Good stuff.

Scoop :)

Tis true, they did rip them for it:

3.0 Conclusions
3.1 Findings:

7. The first officer had a tendency to overreact to wake turbulence by taking unnecessary actions, including making excessive control inputs.
8. The American Airlines Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Program ground school training encouraged pilots to use rudder to assist with roll control during recovery from upsets, including wake turbulence.
9. The American Airlines Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Program excessive bank angle simulator exercise could have caused the first officer to have an unrealistic and exaggerated view of the effects of wake turbulence; erroneously associate wake turbulence encounters with the need for aggressive roll upset recovery techniques; and develop control strategies that would produce a much different, and potentially surprising and confusing, response if performed during flight.
10.Before the flight 587 accident, pilots were not being adequately trained on what effect rudder pedal inputs have on the Airbus A300-600 at high airspeeds and how the airplane’s rudder travel limiter system operates.

2.6
As discussed in section 2.3.2.2, the Safety Board’s investigation found deficiencies in the American Airlines AAMP, including the following:
• ground school training that encouraged the use of rudder for roll control;
• a simulator exercise in which pilots were encouraged to employ large rudder inputs without being fully trained in the operating properties of the specific rudder control system or fully understanding the structural loads that might be imposed on the airframe by certain inputs;
• a simulator exercise that provided unrealistic portrayals of an airplane response to wake turbulence and significantly suppressed control input effectiveness to induce a large rolling potential that was unlikely to occur with an airplane as large as an A300-600; and
• a simulator exercise that encouraged the use of rudder in a highly dynamic situation without portraying the large buildup in sideslip angle and sideload that would accompany such rudder inputs in an actual airplane.

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2004/AAR0404.pdf

That's only part of the picture. Look at the final report section of other Captain comments about the FO. One was a 727 CA who after a wake encounter thought they had lost an engine because the yaw was real bad. Turns out it was the FO stomping on the rudder pedals. The CA was very surprised and told the FO that all his actions did is make the problem worse and introduce large side loads. Of course the FO got defensive. On the accident FDR, his reactions are over the top. The ntsb commented on his very quick action on the yoke, how the aircraft hasn't even gotten enough time to respond to one input and he already reverses it. Not to mention, him asking twice for more power. Positive rate of climb and still climbing at close to 250 kts. More power? For wake? I don't know how much you can blame the AA AMTP, evidence shows this FO didn't really understand wake and what stomping on a rudder actually does.