Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1407923)

Do any of you Delta South guys remember HOW and WHY got the 25% raises in 2001?

The company didn't just throw them at us, gratis.

The company had been making record profits at the time, and we were coming off a serious hose-job of a 3+ year contract that was POS 96, when we started negotiations, remember?

We were in negotiations for nearly two years, (1999-2001). We had Family Awareness meetings, then we had a 95% strike vote, we cleaned out our lockers, we marched through the airport, we did a lot of informational picketing.

OK, fast fwd to last June. We were completely unprepared to negotiate any real increases. Where was the spool up? Where was the Family Awareness and Strike Committee?

There wasn't any. Why not? Too soon.

Richard saw that lack of preparation as an "Opportunity" to throw us a small bone early, and avoid a long and ugly contract negotiations, during a time (now) HE KNEW Delta would once again be making huge money. He KNEW what we would do to get a bigger piece of the pie, and it would not be the Happy Talk that Wall Street wants to hear. It would have been Strike Talk.

What do you think that would have done to the Stock Price? And why does he want the price up anyway?


Because Richard gets paid mostly with STOCK! Why? Because Stock gains are only taxed at 15%.

So Richard opened early, before DALPA got the pilot group prepared to really apply any leverage. 6 weeks later we get 4, 8.5, 3, 3, with the promise we will be back in negotiations by March or April 2013.

How's that working out for you?

Oh, and a very small point of clarification, DALPA didn't take Richard's "First Offer", they took his Last Offer. I spoke with one of the negotiators prior to the vote, he told me the First Offer was... NO PAY RAISES at all!

They seriously thought throwing the 717's at us and parking 200 RJ's would make us so giddy that we would not need a pay raise!

What they really did was open low, and let us twist their arm....all the way up to 12.5% plus COLA raises.

Getting back to the first point, we obviously could have done a LOT better, but just like in 1999-2001, it would have taken two years (or more) of informational picketing, inflatable rats, billboards, articles in the press, a strike vote, marching through the airport, etc. to apply the leverage necessary to get any REAL gains.

Enter the Time Value of Money argument...

Well, we are making 12.5% more today than a year ago, so that's good. But what did we give up, long term, to get it? And will we be back in negotiations any time soon? And if we are, will we be ready to apply any of the above mentioned leverage by then?

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1407948)

Well.......I guess when you only come on here once a month, no one answers your questions.

See you boys next month.

Happy mothers day

Ferd

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1407951)

What questions? I agree with your premise that DPA is dead... and the alternative is a big YGTBSM....

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1407952)

I'm actually being a little bipolar this morning and deleted the above snark remark. :o

Happy Mothers day

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1407923)

Do any of you Delta South guys remember HOW and WHY got the 25% raises in 2001?

The company didn't just throw them at us, gratis.

The company had been making record profits at the time, and we were coming off a serious hose-job of a 3+ year contract that was POS 96, when we started negotiations, remember?

We were in negotiations for nearly two years, (1999-2001). We had Family Awareness meetings, then we had a 95% strike vote, we cleaned out our lockers, we marched through the airport, we did a lot of informational picketing.

OK, fast fwd to last June. We were completely unprepared to negotiate any real increases. Where was the spool up? Where was the Family Awareness and Strike Committee?

There wasn't any. Why not? Too soon.

Richard saw that lack of preparation as an "Opportunity" to throw us a small bone early, and avoid a long and ugly contract negotiations, during a time (now) HE KNEW Delta would once again be making huge money. He KNEW what we would do to get a bigger piece of the pie, and it would not be the Happy Talk that Wall Street wants to hear. It would have been Strike Talk.

What do you think that would have done to the Stock Price? And why does he want the price up anyway?


Because Richard gets paid mostly with STOCK! Why? Because Stock gains are only taxed at 15%.

So Richard opened early, before DALPA got the pilot group prepared to really apply any leverage. 6 weeks later we get 4, 8.5, 3, 3, with the promise we will be back in negotiations by March or April 2013.

How's that working out for you?

Oh, and a very small point of clarification, DALPA didn't take Richard's "First Offer", they took his Last Offer. I spoke with one of the negotiators prior to the vote, he told me the First Offer was... NO PAY RAISES at all!

They seriously thought throwing the 717's at us and parking 200 RJ's would make us so giddy that we would not need a pay raise!

What they really did was open low, and let us twist their arm....all the way up to 12.5% plus COLA raises.

Getting back to the first point, we obviously could have done a LOT better, but just like in 1999-2001, it would have taken two years (or more) of informational picketing, inflatable rats, billboards, articles in the press, a strike vote, marching through the airport, etc. to apply the leverage necessary to get any REAL gains.

Enter the Time Value of Money argument...

Well, we are making 12.5% more today than a year ago, so that's good. But what did we give up, long term, to get it? And will we be back in negotiations any time soon? And if we are, will we be ready to apply any of the above mentioned leverage by then?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1407863)

First, I think you mean the NMB...not the NLRB. Second, this is pure personal opinion on your part. You don't speak for what the NMB thinks, or "the rest of the world".

I think part of your problem is that you focus on what seat you're in. You and I are doing decently, but still not world market rates for our aircraft. Where you really need to focus is the bottom two-thirds of our list where heavily experienced guys are making FAR below world market rates for the aircraft they fly. I cannot understand why you try to sugar coat this. It is inexcusable for the quality of pilot we have here to be making so far below world market rates. Inexcusable. That's the message to management. Not: "Oh Mr. Anderson, how's that whole stock buyback thing going? Anything we can do to help?"



We're not even hitting singles or doubles finis, we were afraid to leave the dugout! We got COLA pay rate increases, and that was partially funded by less profit sharing! It's not even keeping up with inflation...real inflation that is - the kind that includes food and energy. You've got to step up to the plate in order to hit a single or a double, much less a home run. Cowering in the dugout for fear of what might go wrong doesn't cut it.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1407863)

First, I think you mean the NMB...not the NLRB. Second, this is pure personal opinion on your part. You don't speak for what the NMB thinks, or "the rest of the world".

I think part of your problem is that you focus on what seat you're in. You and I are doing decently, but still not world market rates for our aircraft. Where you really need to focus is the bottom two-thirds of our list where heavily experienced guys are making FAR below world market rates for the aircraft they fly. I cannot understand why you try to sugar coat this. It is inexcusable for the quality of pilot we have here to be making so far below world market rates. Inexcusable. That's the message to management. Not: "Oh Mr. Anderson, how's that whole stock buyback thing going? Anything we can do to help?"



We're not even hitting singles or doubles finis, we were afraid to leave the dugout! We got COLA pay rate increases, and that was partially funded by less profit sharing! It's not even keeping up with inflation...real inflation that is - the kind that includes food and energy. You've got to step up to the plate in order to hit a single or a double, much less a home run. Cowering in the dugout for fear of what might go wrong doesn't cut it.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1407823)

First of all, it was 62% - not 68%. 62% did NOT say it was good enough. 62% voted YES...big difference. DALPA completely mismanaged our negotiations, there can be little doubt of that left. The proof of that is most of the really bad actors in that drama are gone now.

Signing off on a deal without consulting the MEC, then handing it to the MEC for a vote as an already done deal needing a rubber stamp was a disaster. Many of the pilots who voted YES did so becasue they realized how completely outclassed our MEC leadership was, and it would be that same outclassed leadership that went back into the real Section 6 negotiations.

Carl

Originally Posted by finis72 (Post 1407992)

Carl, I just checked all rates for F/O's and have to raise the BS flag on what you said. SW has a higher hourly rate on the 737, other than that for all US carriers DL is next highest on F/O rates...