Originally Posted by cni187 (Post 1401778)

Guess the 747 can't open the back door and jettison the cargo huh? C-5 had a procedure to open the back door and send the cargo flying on its own.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1401786)

Well since the C-5 rarely gets off the ground, the cargo won't have far to fall using that procedure. :D

Carl

Originally Posted by FedElta (Post 1401754)

Hey Slow,

I was an A300 LCA when American lost the A300 in Jamaica Bay. Rudder input did not go away completely as a result of that accident. Rather, it was relegated to a hail-mary status in a high alpha/ low speed event where pitch authority could not get the nose down, and aileron/spoiler input was insufficient to roll the aircraft.....rudder was carefully applied to get the nose below the horizon.....and no rudder reversal input.........is that your recollection ??

Regards,
BG

Originally Posted by cni187 (Post 1401616)

Bagram Aerial Port loaded it, ie Air Force kids. I'm sure National like Polar has loadmasters on the crew who check it. A retired load from my old unit went to Polar and does the same job for them.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1401671)

...At the first realization that pitch is not controllable (even with full forward yoke pressure), roll hard to the left or right to point the lift vector on or even below the horizon (90 to 100 degrees of bank angle). This causes the nose to quickly fall below the horizon and airspeed to rapidly increase assuming you leave power at full...

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 1401870)

The video almost looks like they tried. One wing drops and the nose falls through the horizon, unfortunately they were on the deck before they could get the pitch back to level.

Of course they also could have been wallowing in a stall the whole way down.

Either way, the stuff of nightmares...

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 1401870)

The video almost looks like they tried. One wing drops and the nose falls through the horizon, unfortunately they were on the deck before they could get the pitch back to level.

Of course they also could have been wallowing in a stall the whole way down.

Either way, the stuff of nightmares...

Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 1401809)

Not sure if you made this post in jest or serious..
But even a C-5 would have been screwed.
No way to open the back end from upstairs.. takes the Loadmasters to pull ramp pins and then open the aft ramp & door from downstairs~

Motch
ex C-5 FE~

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1401887)

It looked like they were in a full stall by the time they rolled left, then right. It then looks like a spin was starting to develop.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1401671)

Incredibly sad. We all need to try to learn anything we can from the loss of these lives, and the following is meant for that purpose:

If they had cargo come loose, and If that resulted in an instant CG movement beyond the aft limits, a full aerodynamic stall and departure from controlled flight may have been preventable. I got to experience this very thing in the test environment, and the recovery technique is not immediately logical. At the first realization that pitch is not controllable (even with full forward yoke pressure), roll hard to the left or right to point the lift vector on or even below the horizon (90 to 100 degrees of bank angle). This causes the nose to quickly fall below the horizon and airspeed to rapidly increase assuming you leave power at full. As airspeed increases, level the wings and accept that the nose will rapidly rise again. Repeating this pattern results in gaining altitude with each roll reversal, and buys time to trim the stabilizer to the full nose down limit, select full flaps, and the aircraft is controllable with full forward yoke pressure.

There's no way you can pull this off without the instant reaction that only comes from prior training and mental preparation. Assuming the crew never got this training, they sadly had no chance. Not saying with certainty this recovery technique would have worked in this condition, but it may have.

Something to think about.

Carl

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 1401901)

I would agree... but for the nose coming up in the final seconds.

Jury's out until they crack into the FDR and make some chilling cartoons for the rest of us to learn from.