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Originally Posted by boog123
(Post 1421510)
In other words, you boys were "had". Hardly the results that were implied/stated during the roadshows. My reps told the truth and this is exactly what has happened. The "job loss" is continued stagnation from 5500 and up. My guess is you are well north of that.
The jury is still out on that issue, but with each lame a$$$ bid that comes and goes with no real movement it is getting closer to a verdict. Scoop |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1421488)
Hint, International RPM's are up comparing 09 to 11. Could not find the 12 data. I am sure someone has it. |
Originally Posted by FlyZ
(Post 1421524)
Yes, Sailing, we 2007-8 hires held consistent international lines. That was before we let them combine the 7ER and 767 categories (for which we got nothing in return), which pushed international flying into the 10-years-of-seniority realm. In those days, we received 1 1/2 or 2x pay for any domestic trip assigned to a 7ER guy (I forget which one). We gave that up as well when the categories combined.
I guess there will always be some number one can find that makes it seem like things have improved. For me, though, "things" only include the plane I'm flying, the type of flying I'm doing, the schedule I'm keeping, the amount of money I'm being paid, and the side benefits like retirement, sick leave, etc. I can tell you that no matter how many times ALPA tells me it's gotten better, in my experience things hav gone consistently downhill in almost all those categories in the past five years. The new hires who went into NYC were out of seniority as you know. There were I believe the bottom 90 copilots. We keep about 60 reserves so there were some that held lines. I flew all Europe in that time period and never had a new hire on a trip unless he was a reserve. I guess perhaps you mean GEO or some of those trips by international. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1421580)
Your understanding of how the trips were combined is wrong. The company could always place domestic flying in the international categories. In fact they were doing it all the way back to the start of the NYC ER category in the early 90's every winter to counter the loss of flying to Europe. There was no extra pay ever for domestic trips placed in any international category bid package. There were issues that kept the company from doing it on a large scale with publications ect.. but nothing contractual.
The new hires who went into NYC were out of seniority as you know. There were I believe the bottom 90 copilots. We keep about 60 reserves so there were some that held lines. I flew all Europe in that time period and never had a new hire on a trip unless he was a reserve. I guess perhaps you mean GEO or some of those trips by international. 2 comments. The first highlight above was what management could have called a "sleeper cell" They got that into our contract years ago, and never exploited it until recently. How it ever got there in the first place is beyond me... The second highlight is a comment that I despise. If they got it in a bid, they were not out of seniority. Period. |
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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1421581)
2 comments. The first highlight above was what management could have called a "sleeper cell" They got that into our contract years ago, and never exploited it until recently. How it ever got there in the first place is beyond me... The second highlight is a comment that I despise. If they got it in a bid, they were not out of seniority. Period.
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Originally Posted by Scoop
(Post 1421574)
The jury is still out on that issue, but with each lame a$$$ bid that comes and goes with no real movement it is getting closer to a verdict.
Scoop As for the 07/08's holding the ER - we have to remember that DOH isn't really the factor. Many PNWA 00' hires are thrown in there as well. 13 years and hanging on to the bottom of an ER category. I just hope to G O D that if/when we merger/acquire that when talking SLI we talk DOH and not merge a AS/HAL 07 hire next to a PNWA 00'. (Any Merger Committee Types reading this?) Baja. |
Originally Posted by EF77
(Post 1421543)
FDX, out with the old. Love's them some 757's. Wonder where they gonna get them? Oh, you guys are getting rid of some.... maybe even more with a buyer. FedEx Corp. Accelerates Aircraft Retirements - Yahoo! Finance
Originally Posted by EF77
(Post 1421543)
Emirates wants to fly 5th freedom from Asia to US with it's shiny A380's, good luck to the US carriers if this happens.
Emirates Seeks Global Supremacy With A380s Flying Asia-US Routes - Bloomberg beautiful product, but its not sustainable. They've already had to cut back the amount of business seats they put on the market because they're not filling them. Their product is much too expensive. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1421499)
You held a international line?
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Originally Posted by Ferd149
(Post 1421587)
FlyZ
What Herkflyr said. Also, remember, you merged with a mature pilot group (didn't have a rush for the door with our pension) where international went at least the 5 year point (my crappie memory but that is a conservative estimate). Also, our junior international guys were on the 757 flying Asia (me) because the Whale and DC-10 Second Officers made more $$ than ANY narrow body copilot........and thus slightly more senior (in general, yes some guys wanted to FLY and ignored the money). As you know, what guys do and don't fly is always convoluted by wants, desires and interests..............but you being an international guy out of the box at Delta was a stroke of luck/timing probably never to be seen again. It had nothing to do with combining the ER and domestic categories, that happened post merger. He said, "I'd be stuck on reserve forever, and might even get displaced off it, and have to go to 88 school anyway." Many of the new hires with longer commutes (he lives in TX) bid the 88 over the ER, in an attempt to move up to line holder sooner, making their life a little better than living in a crash pad in NYC 19 days a month. I heard they actually had to ASSIGN the right seat of the NYC 76ER to some of the new hires coming out of training, due to that same reason. I also heard we had a couple newbs divert over the North Atlantic, while the Capt. was on break, when they were trying to upload new winds in the FMS and got the (standard) "insufficient fuel" message! The story goes, one of the F/A's woke the Capt. and asked him why they just turned 90 degrees off course! I head not long after that incident, the FAA told Delta to stop putting new hires in the right seat of the ER! |
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