2 comments. The first highlight above was what management could have called a "sleeper cell" They got that into our contract years ago, and never exploited it until recently. How it ever got there in the first place is beyond me... The second highlight is a comment that I despise. If they got it in a bid, they were not out of seniority. Period.

 

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Agree! Good on them for their timing..........but it was/is New York so it wasn't THAT lucky Kidding just kidding

 

I remember something in print from ALPA & the CO during the Roadshow about 'Hiring' if we signed the contract. Ok - we're getting the Puppy Jets, but where is the hiring?

As for the 07/08's holding the ER - we have to remember that DOH isn't really the factor. Many PNWA 00' hires are thrown in there as well. 13 years and hanging on to the bottom of an ER category.

I just hope to G O D that if/when we merger/acquire that when talking SLI we talk DOH and not merge a AS/HAL 07 hire next to a PNWA 00'. (Any Merger Committee Types reading this?)

Baja.

 

This is old news. Fed Ex bought a few older 757s from Delta years ago, & they announced recently that they were buying at least 30 from United. I'd be surprised if Delta didn't sell some 757s to Fed Ex.

Not worried about it. The WB bubble will pop for Emirates. They have a
beautiful product, but its not sustainable. They've already had to cut back the amount of business seats they put on the market because they're not filling them. Their product is much too expensive.

 

There were no domestic lines at the time. The one in September I traded around for (ifi remember right) to two 6-day Heathrow/JFKs and one 4 day SP to CDG. Good times. After that it was LHR, CDG, DUB and lots of Milan then MD-88. As to JFK I grabbed a lot of Guatemala and GRU.

 

I always wondered why the 76ER went so junior back then as well. I asked a good friend of mine (retired from AF) who was a new hire then, why he didn't bid the 767ER instead of the MD88 in NYC.

He said, "I'd be stuck on reserve forever, and might even get displaced off it, and have to go to 88 school anyway." Many of the new hires with longer commutes (he lives in TX) bid the 88 over the ER, in an attempt to move up to line holder sooner, making their life a little better than living in a crash pad in NYC 19 days a month.

I heard they actually had to ASSIGN the right seat of the NYC 76ER to some of the new hires coming out of training, due to that same reason. I also heard we had a couple newbs divert over the North Atlantic, while the Capt. was on break, when they were trying to upload new winds in the FMS and got the (standard) "insufficient fuel" message! The story goes, one of the F/A's woke the Capt. and asked him why they just turned 90 degrees off course!


I head not long after that incident, the FAA told Delta to stop putting new hires in the right seat of the ER!

 

I'd like to remind people that simply hiring pilots won't do a lot for anyone advancement wise. So everyone who is griping about no hiring, think about how there will be no real advancement until retirements start. That's the truth. Until we (a) take delivery of growth airplanes (b) begin to see significant retirements hiring isn't really going to advance anyone.


So even if hiring had started "as early as 2012" it would've done little to no good for any of us. It would've simply provided some breathing room for the junior people at the bottom of the M88, DC9, and probably the 320. That's it. None of us would've moved up simply from hiring. You can't move up if there isn't anywhere to go up to.

 

Two comments back at you.

1. The "sleeper cell" observation is just completely irrelevant. Delta--and every other airline in history--has always had the ability to assign flying any way they want. Even today the 777, which is 95% ultra-long-haul flying, has two day trips that fly ATL-LAX, layover, then LAX-ATL back on day two. Are you stating that we should have a separate 777 "domestic" category just for those trips?

2. The pilots who were on the 7ER in 07-08 were usually assigned those categories as newhires--that could only have happened if those positions went unfilled on an AE. That actually happened, but will most likely never happen again. AND, that all happened at a time when the company was vastly increasing flying to Europe (pre economic meltdown) and hadn't stop flying to several Middle East markets (JFK-AMM, JFK-CAI) prior to the "Arab Spring."

Bottom line is that any new hire in 07 who got the 7ER bid, and was able to fly to international destinations, was part of a very unique one-time only set of circumstances--just like guys in their second year with the company were flying Delta Express captain (and holding a line) in 1998.

I don't resent any of it and am actually happy for anyone who was able to hold Kiev in year two. I just don't want to hear complaints from said guys as if their early "success" was somehow owed them, and any lack of ability to continue that at this point in time is something of a conspiracy.

 

FTB,

It was simply the perfect storm. The lump sum retirements caused massive movement on the DAL side, & based on the economy with or without the merger it'd would've been corrected. With the economy tanking, DAL as a stand alone carrier would've halted the international expansion and pulled out of markets just as we've done as a merged company. There would've been displacements, & 07 hires would've been kicked to NYC M88 B. Heck, NWA & DAL likely would've furloughed again.