If I am not mistaken they have stated the campaign now is turning from total cards to card renewals.

One thing I think we can agree on.....even if several hundred (lets say 300) of the cards filled out were the ALPA guys who keep saying they filled out a card to see what was going on out of curiosity and some were lookie looers...you still have over 5000 pilots who filled out cards likely with a purpose. That purpose is probably festering even bigger now given the "well get em next year" nonsense that keeps repeating year after year and level of distrust our current union has built for themselves.

Regardless of what those who want to protect their current position say here, a large group of pilots are entertaining a change. The movement has made more progress than even I thought it would...and it is still here now getting card renewals and adding first time cards.

 

I, like most of the card submitters, filled one out with a purpose, Jack. The DPA's actions and conduct have been the prime cause for non-renewals.

The morons running the DPA movement have ensured that many of us have had to shake our heads, sigh, and say "well, maybe something better will come along sometime... but for now, ALPA will have to do."

Most people I've encountered who submitted cards along with me have not renewed theirs for the same reasons.

You are incorrect on the count:

http://deltapilotsassociation.org/member-form/

40 to go? Probably closer to 4000 to get renewed.... So, we replace one lying organization with another. What's to be gained?

 

I filled out a card, and there is no way they'll be getting a renewal. I'm not alone.

I felt the idea had merit at the time and was worth exploring, but 80 said it well that DPA would be worse, far worse.

Things are not perfect and the never will be. I'll take our reality any day though over DPA's promise of utopia. I'm always wary of those that over promise without ever having had to produce concrete results. The DPA bullet points you put up are admirable goals, but ive seen nothing to show me that the few guys running the side show are capable of executing even a smidgen of what they're promising.

 

RA loves 9500 just like he loved 4900 at NWA.

TEN

These last few pages have left a nauseating feeling in my stomach.

 

Can we at least agree your union autonomously changing the lookback for compliance to three years was nothing short of asinine?

They are still not letting all the details out and what they are presenting came only after much begging and pleading for them to do so. The format they are using to disseminate the info is metered based upon their personal whim.

Lobbying will not be lost with a new union...in all likelihood it will grow more poweful because more pilots will be able to get behind and donate to an organization they trust with their money.

I did many times. In fact what I heard was if we didnt take the first deal offered, we would likely end up with even less.

Change has been tried time and again. The structure is set up in a such a way that it is impossible to change...the top of the organization is nearly impenitrable by the line guy trying to get involved and change from within.

The same mantra gets repeated year after year...get involved. Guys have tried only to have their voice mushroomed. In the mean time loose contracts are negotiated, work rules are lost, small pay increases are eaten up by inflation, guys are getting bumped back to lower paying equipment, the seniority list and block hours for Delta mainline pilots shrink, etc.

ALPA has had many chances to change. They dig their heels in and lash out at their own constituents trying to cast blame away from themselves when most of the blame falls squarely on their shoulders...they accept little to no responsibility. It would be much less work to level the current organization than it would be to try to add a new door here and a walk in closet over there. It just aint happening and yet the backward slide continues.

 

Where am I incorrect on the count? I said there were likely greater than 5000 who signed a card because they felt it was worthwhile. Beyond that, both of us can only speculate based upon our own antidotal observations who's cards have been or will/will not be renewed.

We will have to agree to disagree on this point. I think many still have hope for the new organization regardless of some of the polarizing remarks Tim has made (no doubt when he is fueled up about the latest ALPA fiasco). Btw, I have watched some of the video conferences DPA has put on. Many of those guys are not "morons" as you say but honest to goodness good guys looking for change. Many are level headed, rational thinking guys trying to improve the profession by taking some control back, changing the current trajectory for present day and future airline pilots and their families. I think it is disingenuous for you to label all of them "morons". I dislike ALPA and I don't call them morons. I know many ALPA guys I respect greatly and feel their pain when they try to change and are taken out of the most important decision making processes. DPA has more support than you are giving it credit for IMHO.

 

See the 40 to go? That's what they are claiming they need to call for a vote. That number in reality is at least 1000 away due expired cards that have not been renewed. They don't publish the real number... transparent, right?

I'm sure there are some smart people involved on the inside at DPA. I just have yet to run into any that actually know what they are talking about. (well, except for Carl Spackler. He's one smart cookie. If I saw his name heading up the effort, I'll give it a second look) Look at how many emails Caplinger has put out with these long, emotional rants... and then had to retract various "facts" that he put in there due to not understanding what he was looking at.

 

And it is certainly your right to not renew. That said, I believe there are more people renewing now than there have been in months. The fire has been lit once again given the current unions misleading remarks RE C2012 and opaque SOP.

 

How about the previous sentence where they said they were aware that the displaced 7er F/O's would "quickly rebound back up?"

They know the displacements won't last long, but they just have to do them to staff the MD88.

Hummm....

 

If you read their emails (which I doubt you do because you dont like Tim and you think all of the leadership are "morons" as you say) you would see they are turning the campain toward renewls acknowledging that is the next challenge. Haha you want to talk about "transparent"? I think we should all be 100% used to that now with our current union. Give me a break.

Launching a competing product into any market let alone a market where you start with no access to contact info, shut out from using company resources that your competitor uses freely with the governing bodies blessing (Delta does this because they love and want to keep the, ahem, 50/50 "mutually beneficial working relationship with the current union). The company whispers into ALPA's ear compliments of Mr. Campbell, a $1000/hr union busting attorney (who also happens to want to keep ALPA around...I wonder why?) to shut down the competing product.

Yes Tim gets emotional and has said dumb things. Have you ever? Tim and DPA have been very clear....there will be an election for the new union. It is highly probably Tim wont run but if he does he probably would never get elected. That said, the organization is borrowing best practices for a bottom up organization that will represent the pilots in the best way going forward. I think that is what many who have filled out DPA cards are interested in.

The DPA has made an remarkable amount of progress given all the obstacles and unlevel playing field set before them. Time will tell if the amount of dissatisfaction and inability of those in the current union to ever shape up (not looking promising over the past several years) cause enough dissatisfied Delta pilots to vote in a new representative body.