Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-30-2013, 04:59 PM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
Go check out ATL320A trip coverage for today. You have to see it to believe it, but some guy got GS#7!
06-30-2013, 04:59 PM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
Originally Posted by Avgwhitemale
IMO...it may or may not be a good business deal for RA and DAL. It would ruin the careers for the bottom 2000 pilots on the DAL seniority list.
Wife and I discussed it and there really is no other career where I can make as much money as I do sitting on my butt not doing much.
06-30-2013, 05:15 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by RockyBoy
Met an ATL 320A in the hotel van last month on GS#6. Showed all of us pictures of the new Corvette he had ordered.
06-30-2013, 05:18 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 80
Just to set the record straight from a Alaska LAX pilot, here's the deal on T6. First we were getting squeezed out of T3 with the deal that VX and LAWA worked out and it was to costly to keep operating there. Granted our company will step over a quarter to pick up a dime but that's besides the point.
The decision to move to T6 comes down to two things. The first is that Delta did offer to cover a portion of the move and remodel. I'm unsure of the exact number but it was not a high percentage. This of course was due to the new code share, JV or whatever this is.
The second was that LAWA offered to cover the majority of the cost in lieu of paying AS the multi million dollar settlement AS won. We sued because of the unfair landing fees and rent costs. To the folks sitting in cubicles in SEA and ATL this made sense.
Operationally we can all agree it sucks. There are certain gates we own outright and others we share. Delta has priority on I think 68B and 69A&B. For us things moved much easier on the north side and I know for a fact there is buyers remorse on our side.
I can personally attest to hour+ waits for gates, being number 5 for push into the alley behind ALL Delta jets etc...It was also much easier for us personally when we controlled our own ramp.
The decision to move to T6 comes down to two things. The first is that Delta did offer to cover a portion of the move and remodel. I'm unsure of the exact number but it was not a high percentage. This of course was due to the new code share, JV or whatever this is.
The second was that LAWA offered to cover the majority of the cost in lieu of paying AS the multi million dollar settlement AS won. We sued because of the unfair landing fees and rent costs. To the folks sitting in cubicles in SEA and ATL this made sense.
Operationally we can all agree it sucks. There are certain gates we own outright and others we share. Delta has priority on I think 68B and 69A&B. For us things moved much easier on the north side and I know for a fact there is buyers remorse on our side.
I can personally attest to hour+ waits for gates, being number 5 for push into the alley behind ALL Delta jets etc...It was also much easier for us personally when we controlled our own ramp.
06-30-2013, 05:21 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
From Xray:
My point is the payroll will not be any different because we want LGP. If the next contract would have brought a 10% increase, it will still be a 10% increase no matter what kind of pay we want.
You referred to it as a paycut.
So how do you sell it if some guys are going to get a 1% pay raise while others get a 15% pay raise. Do you really think something like that would pass a vote?
Frankly, it will depend on each individual's POV. If ego and penis envy is at play, then you are right, it will probably go down in flames. If a long term look is taken, it should sell itself. Look at the fleet plan. Downgaging. What if the 747s go away. Paycuts all around. Oh goody, where do I sign up for more of that? Compare the fleets of DAL and UAL. They have 156 "super premium" aircraft. We have 34. One has to be pretty special to fly a 777 here, there, you can have so-so seniority and be in it.
Further, how do you handle staffing as you shift to LGP? Do you rebid the entire airline?
Hell, f'in no. The AE process will take care of it.
Cause a guy who is sitting junior reserve at a crappy crashpad at LGA is not going to want to stay there if his pay is the same either way.
Ahhh, so now QOL is important all of a sudden? Why hasn't it been up until this very moment? Or are you saying that he might get bumped out of that crappy crashpad to go fly.. oh I don't know.. the 777???
Again, for every pilot who gets a good deal someone else will get the shaft.
I disagree. Your deal might not be as good as someone else's, but I would hardly call it "getting the shaft" It would be a process, and it would take time. I would call sitting in that crappy crashpad in NY "getting the shaft" when that same guy might be able to drive to work in ATL on something else. There are 11,000 opinions about what is the ideal gig. Choice is something we do not really have right now.
A pilot who is junior in ATL but not commuting may well be forced to commute when that senior pilot who was commuting to LGA for the money decides to come home.
I highly doubt it, because if all the pablum about the upcoming pilot shortage is anything other than a bunch of hot air, there will be enough movement to absorb this. This is a unique time to make this kind of change.
How far do you run out the pay scale? 20 years? 25 years? How do you set it up so a pilot gets a raise every year for 25 years without lowering the rates for years 1-12?
40 years. You can get hired at 23 with an ATP. Retirement age is 65. I rounded down.
LGP creates more problems than it solves. It's a pipe dream for few lazy pilots who want 777 pay without having to commute to a base where the 777 is flown.
Not only is that wrong, it is insulting. My reasoning for it is to improve QOL AND career income for more (young) pilots. The super premium argument is all about ego and greed and paying more to fewer. Apparently you are good with that. I'm not, and to be clear, I am happy with my lot in life. I plan on staying on the 767 until I retire. I am happy with the money I am making here, and I enjoy what I do. My motivations have nothing to do with getting 777 pay without having to commute. That is a moot point anyway, since I won't be able to hold the 777 until I am 63 and by then I am planning on sailing around New Zealand on my days off and not sitting reserve in some stinky crashpad for "the big bucks". QOL baby....
My point is the payroll will not be any different because we want LGP. If the next contract would have brought a 10% increase, it will still be a 10% increase no matter what kind of pay we want.
You referred to it as a paycut.
So how do you sell it if some guys are going to get a 1% pay raise while others get a 15% pay raise. Do you really think something like that would pass a vote?
Frankly, it will depend on each individual's POV. If ego and penis envy is at play, then you are right, it will probably go down in flames. If a long term look is taken, it should sell itself. Look at the fleet plan. Downgaging. What if the 747s go away. Paycuts all around. Oh goody, where do I sign up for more of that? Compare the fleets of DAL and UAL. They have 156 "super premium" aircraft. We have 34. One has to be pretty special to fly a 777 here, there, you can have so-so seniority and be in it.
Further, how do you handle staffing as you shift to LGP? Do you rebid the entire airline?
Hell, f'in no. The AE process will take care of it.
Cause a guy who is sitting junior reserve at a crappy crashpad at LGA is not going to want to stay there if his pay is the same either way.
Ahhh, so now QOL is important all of a sudden? Why hasn't it been up until this very moment? Or are you saying that he might get bumped out of that crappy crashpad to go fly.. oh I don't know.. the 777???
Again, for every pilot who gets a good deal someone else will get the shaft.
I disagree. Your deal might not be as good as someone else's, but I would hardly call it "getting the shaft" It would be a process, and it would take time. I would call sitting in that crappy crashpad in NY "getting the shaft" when that same guy might be able to drive to work in ATL on something else. There are 11,000 opinions about what is the ideal gig. Choice is something we do not really have right now.
A pilot who is junior in ATL but not commuting may well be forced to commute when that senior pilot who was commuting to LGA for the money decides to come home.
I highly doubt it, because if all the pablum about the upcoming pilot shortage is anything other than a bunch of hot air, there will be enough movement to absorb this. This is a unique time to make this kind of change.
How far do you run out the pay scale? 20 years? 25 years? How do you set it up so a pilot gets a raise every year for 25 years without lowering the rates for years 1-12?
40 years. You can get hired at 23 with an ATP. Retirement age is 65. I rounded down.
LGP creates more problems than it solves. It's a pipe dream for few lazy pilots who want 777 pay without having to commute to a base where the 777 is flown.
Not only is that wrong, it is insulting. My reasoning for it is to improve QOL AND career income for more (young) pilots. The super premium argument is all about ego and greed and paying more to fewer. Apparently you are good with that. I'm not, and to be clear, I am happy with my lot in life. I plan on staying on the 767 until I retire. I am happy with the money I am making here, and I enjoy what I do. My motivations have nothing to do with getting 777 pay without having to commute. That is a moot point anyway, since I won't be able to hold the 777 until I am 63 and by then I am planning on sailing around New Zealand on my days off and not sitting reserve in some stinky crashpad for "the big bucks". QOL baby....
06-30-2013, 05:23 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by finis72
Maybe there are more 777's in our future. We would need 10 777LR's to do JNB.DXB, and JFK-SIA, LAX-SIA and LAX-SYD and we have 10. That leaves the 8 777-200ER's to fly the other 777 routes and it's not enough.
I still think they re buying the increased gross weight 330's, they could do some of the DTW and MSP 777 routes. We should find out the end of July. I have no argument with the "I'll believe it when I see it" crowd on this either, we have had our hopes crushed too many times on supposed airplane orders.
Just to pull Carl's chain; unless somebody pays us to take more 747's I think we have all the 747-400's we are going to operate. There is a reason those aircraft are so cheap, you can't give them away.
I still think they re buying the increased gross weight 330's, they could do some of the DTW and MSP 777 routes. We should find out the end of July. I have no argument with the "I'll believe it when I see it" crowd on this either, we have had our hopes crushed too many times on supposed airplane orders.
Just to pull Carl's chain; unless somebody pays us to take more 747's I think we have all the 747-400's we are going to operate. There is a reason those aircraft are so cheap, you can't give them away.
Ding ding ding.. We have a winner. (I'll believe more 777s when I see a widget on the tail though)
06-30-2013, 05:26 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Delta1067
Didn't NWA build a 20 year fence around Republic? Why can't we do the same?
06-30-2013, 06:21 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Delta1067
Didn't NWA build a 20 year fence around Republic? Why can't we do the same?
That was a textbook example on how not to do a seniority list integration.
06-30-2013, 06:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,023
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Methinks you need to do some more research on Red Book/Green book history before you suggest something like that.
That was a textbook example on how not to do a seniority list integration.
That was a textbook example on how not to do a seniority list integration.
06-30-2013, 07:11 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
+1. Very inexpensive and delicious.
TEN
TEN
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Ivar's has the best New England clam chowder too. It's my favorite place to eat lunch on the waterfront. (When friends are in town)
I forgot to mention you can do a tour of underground Seattle too.
Denny
I forgot to mention you can do a tour of underground Seattle too.
Denny
I love all 3 kinds that they offer. One is just loaded with crab. So delicious! The 9 lb porter is also one of my favorite beers from there too.
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