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Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot
(Post 671268)
What the heck is happening to our stock this morning? A combo of the market in general going down and Mesa's announcement that they're countersuing us? It's down almost $0.50 already!
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Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
(Post 671251)
another one who thinks he knows "Joe". The truth is that "Joe" gets a rise out of saying things that make you guy's blood pressure rise. And you fall for it every time! :D
And another thing. He says he finds it interesting that more & more Mainline pilots want his airplane. Well, 1st of all the newbies have seen how outsourced RJs can hurt our careers, BOTH Mainline AND Regional pilots. Second, we aren't the same Mainline pilots that were too good to fly RJs. We are interested in protecting the jobs of our Regional Brothers & Sisters, and eliminating the conflicting interests of of ALPA National who simply CANNOT enhance and protect the Careers of both Mainline & Regional Pilots. It simply can't be done. |
Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
(Post 671250)
Times have changed since you moved over to Delta/NWA. You hired on there a year after I started at ASA. When I first hired on at ASA, the senior most ASA pilot could be making more at Delta by his second year at Delta. Now, it takes about 10 years, not counting lost money, to get back to even....See how the paradigm has shifted a little?
Point is, the decisions of 15 years ago aren't the same now. I am not questioning your decision, just validating mine (so far). Awh, who am I kidding? My commuter sucked so much I'd be better off even if I had left it for the greener pastures of head grounds-keeper. "Here gopher, gopher, gopher...." :D New K Now |
Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
(Post 671245)
To understand where the senior ASA/CMR/Skywest pilot is coming from, you have to look at the 10 year and less FO rates and compare them to the top ASA/CMR rates...On all but the widebodies, the FOs at Delta are making less than the senior ASA/CMR/Skywest.
I believe, and some Delta pilots have confirmed it here, that many Delta pilots would love to fly these large SJs (whatever that really is). A 10 year or less Delta FO would look at QOL and pay and decide it was something he would want to do. Let’s see how close we can come: ASA 15 Year Captain and 18 Year Captain on 1/1/2010 CR2 $90.87 / $98.93 CR7 $96.73 / $105.70 Delta 2nd Year FO and 3rd Year FO on 1/1/2010 M88 $75.13 / $88.00 >>with 13% DC>> $84.90 / $99.44 737 $82.91 / $97.00 >>with 13% DC>> $93.69 / $109.61 Joe, keep telling yourself that its ok that you can't leave ASA and anyway you're making as much as a MD88 3d year FO after a 50% pay cut, so you're doing "great!" Oh yea, if it helps validate you, you are squashing those 2nd year MD88 FOs by like $10. Good on ya! BTW, does it make you feel good about your position we you have to compare your 15-18 year Captain rates to the lowest paid FO rates? Where do you think your pay will be in 10 year? Where do you think that 2nd year MD88 FO's pay will be in 10 years? |
Originally Posted by vprMatrix
(Post 671307)
Joe. You are comparing the best contract ASA has ever had to the most concessionary contract Delta has had and still the numbers are very close.
Let’s see how close we can come: ASA 15 Year Captain and 18 Year Captain on 1/1/2010 CR2 $90.87 / $98.93 CR7 $96.73 / $105.70 Delta 2nd Year FO and 3rd Year FO on 1/1/2010 M88 $75.13 / $88.00 >>with 13% DC>> $84.90 / $99.44 737 $82.91 / $97.00 >>with 13% DC>> $93.69 / $109.61 Joe, keep telling yourself that its ok that you can't leave ASA and anyway you're making as much as a MD88 3d year FO after a 50% pay cut, so you're doing "great!" Oh yea, if it helps validate you, you are squashing those 2nd year MD88 FOs by like $10. Good on ya! BTW, does it make you feel good about your position we you have to compare your 15-18 year Captain rates to the lowest paid FO rates? Where do you think your pay will be in 10 year? Where do you think that 2nd year MD88 FO's pay will be in 10 years? |
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
(Post 671255)
Actually, that's not true. As part of the deal for SkyWest to buy ASA, (and thus financing DAL's exit from bankruptcy), SkyWest Inc. was guaranteed a large portion of DAL feeder flying (purported to be 80% of ATL and SLC). That's why CMR is getting hosed, because DAL can't go after ASA/SKW, has had no success with Mesa, and RA plays golf with PCL's PT. The cuts have to come from somewhere. Unfortunately, XJ is probably next. I thank the heavens every day that DAL sold us. Being a DAL WO is probably the worst thing that can be wished on a regional.
However there are a lot of resets in your contract, the first big one is coming up in about a year. It will be interesting to see if ASA is able to meet its contractual requirements and maintain its current agreement or what the consequences of not making them will be. |
I think one thing Joe is getting at we can discuss amongst those in the position to decide whether to do it. He seems to get at why do we say its better to be at DAL when we are willing to fly these large RJs for the same price? (I'd quote, iphone not behaving but this is honestly what I read a page ago).
This morning I was in DFW, there was me and my 88 and 4 CRJ-900s tied up to a gate. One going to JFK, another to MSP, MEM, etc. Would we be willing to fly the CRJ900s and EJets for less? Well, yes and no. We already have pay rates determined for the CRJ900 and the large Ejets. I want these planes at mainline. Would I fly it for less? Absolutely... for a very short time. I believe from a Collin Cowherd eyeball test that even if you paid a DAL mainline crew more to fly the same jet we'd do it for less than hiring another entire airline to fly it for you for a profit and have no control over their quality, Mesa, or aspirations, RAH. Joe, I think Comair and Mesaba pilots and like I mentioned ExpressJet pilots are screaming as loud as they can, and thats being echoed by the mainline pilots here, to beware of believing a regional airline is safe and your seat, aircraft and QOL are safe. Especially as your legacy costs increase and fuel knock your casms beyond whats remotely reasonable. |
I've heard for years that DAL pilots said they didn't want to fly anything smaller than an MD88/737/DC9.
In 21+ years I've never heard anyone actually say anything of the sort. |
So, getting back to Delta
Fuel prices are down and swine flu is not supposed to be any worse than the normal flu.
We have some good candidates running for office on C44. Anyone? Anyone got Delta news? |
Originally Posted by vprMatrix
(Post 671318)
You are correct for now.
However there are a lot of resets in your contract, the first big one is coming up in about a year. It will be interesting to see if ASA is able to meet its contractual requirements and maintain its current agreement or what the consequences of not making them will be. Joe won't like it much when "his" flying is shipped to a lower cost regional like PCL or Compass. |
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