Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

How was anything that I said gloomy? DL employed 10,400 pilots in 2001. I was 6822 when I got my seniority number in 2007... we are at 11,800 after merging with Northwest which had ~5500 pilots. The numbers speak for themselves! Timbo was speaking on reality when it comes to past actions in regard to growth.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

What do you want? For the 757s, all the 5500 and up through 670 are up for replacement. All of the 763 domestics (non-etops) are up for replacement. Without a life extension, 3209-3250 are up for replacement. Also, I believe some of the first delivery 88s are up as well.

I've never stated that all the 321s are non-growth. There is always overlap on deliveries being taken and aircraft being parked. You keep putting words in my mouth for some reason.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Ask yourself folks, would you want the A321/739 to pay equal to a B767-300 if it meant it could give another pilot group who does NOT have WB jets a WB argument?

IOW, if we merge with say....Alaska.....could an arbitrator consider a 737-900 the same as a B767? I mean, if Delta ALPA considers a 737-900ER equal to a 767-300ER, then what does that do for us in an arbitrated ISL situation?

Originally Posted by bigbusdriver

That's because mergers aren't 1+1, the resulting synergized and disciplined capacity means that you operate the same network with less.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Ask yourself folks, would you want the A321/739 to pay equal to a B767-300 if it meant it could give another pilot group who does NOT have WB jets a WB argument?

IOW, if we merge with say....Alaska.....could an arbitrator consider a 737-900 the same as a B767? I mean, if Delta ALPA considers a 737-900ER equal to a 767-300ER, then what does that do for us in an arbitrated ISL situation?

Originally Posted by johnso29

Perfect. Thanks. Now is that more then 130 airplanes? Because I don't know how many M88s are up. I haven't heard anything about those.

If you could answer this, I'd appreciate it. I'm just curious what people's thoughts are on this.


You did say you wanted the A321 to pay what the B757 pays, but I wasn't sure if you addressed the integration part.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

I'm not sure how many that is off the top of my head, but it is very close to 130. Like I've said, I think there is at least some growth involved with the 321s.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

I didn't say I want the 321 to pay what the 757 pays...putting words in my mouth again.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

The 321 is 20,000 lbs heavier than the 739 and carries more people than the 757. It should pay more than the 739, logically (I just gave tsquare an aneurysm). That will also put us in a better position given an AS merger.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

DL successfully argued that every 757/767 slot was a widebody slot in the DL/NW SLI. We are losing that leverage no matter what with the parking of the older 757s and replacing them with 737s and Airbii. What we can at least do now is have the 321 pay more than the 739, thus getting a boost like DL got with the 757/767 above the NW narrobody fleets. That is critical leverage in an SLI with a 737 operator!

Originally Posted by johnso29

Ask yourself folks, would you want the A321/739 to pay equal to a B767-300 if it meant it could give another pilot group who does NOT have WB jets a WB argument?

IOW, if we merge with say....Alaska.....could an arbitrator consider a 737-900 the same as a B767? I mean, if Delta ALPA considers a 737-900ER equal to a 767-300ER, then what does that do for us in an arbitrated ISL situation?

Originally Posted by hitimefurl

You can twerk a topic like a teetering tightrope walker. Hate is the tool of ALPA??? Really. Eliminating ALPA is your goal (as stated above), it is not starting an independent union. Those of us that have taken the time to read the documents and the forums on the website know the business model is flawed.

The DPA just sent out an update last month that used the words "angered" "upset" "concerned" "upset (again)" and "worried" in talking about how the TWA trial will affect you financially and all of this a few days after having already writen this:

You are consumed with talk about ALPA the hater and ALPA the fear monger yet Tim writes to us using nothing but fear that we do all after he wrote on a public website that he told a bank to get one million dollars (pinky finger) that there was no personal liability. Is he lying to the bank or is he lying to us?

This isn't about hate, it's fundamental flaws in the DPA constitution that make it impossible to open up shop:

• DPA announces dues will be lowered to anywhere between 1%-1.75% depending on where you read the website yet the constitution says they will go up without MEMRAT to 2.25% next year. ALPA can't raise dues today without a vote.
• They say that FPL is bad yet they increased FPL for all volunteers including those that don't get FPL like that today over today's limits and pay for it out of the budget since they will take that money value assigned to the contract and spread it amongst the pilots. No, wait, make that the reps as the FPL is going up the money would go to them not the CBA.
• USAPA payed over $7 million in legal fees to SSM&P in less than 4 years after the vote. SSMP&P is charging 50% of their $250 fee, per their contract, with the rest outstanding after certification, yet the DPA has mysteriously paid a number so small that it can only be called incidental costs from the DPA logs. Where's the legal bill?
• There's a second law firm on the DPA books that has charged more to the DPA than SSM&P so far. Who could that be possible?
• New hires, pilots returning from disability and MILOA can't be reps for 2 years, nor could a pilot from a merged airline because of the 2 year good standing rule
• New hires have to pay a maintenance fee their first year. Not about money, right?
• Look through the USAPA LM2 and see the 6 figure employees they have. You want to know why? That's what good help costs today.
• "A contract which is understandable, enforceable and beneficial to both parties and should not exceed 200 pages." Really? Beneficial to the company? An iron clad 200 pages?
• Voting on everything and everybody. Where will you find the time?
• 25% of the pilots in a block to get a resolution passed vs simply majority at an LEC today? Harder to use the pilots will.

The DPA foundation is cracked and the building plan hasn't been permitted. You can't create a new union from scratch overnight after firing every ALPA volunteer (The DPA Clean House Doctrine) and employee and magically have it up and running on day 2. I know it doesn't matter for you as you already think that no volunteer can think for himself and is controlled by Herndon. That's the insulting part.You claim it's not about the local guys and then say they are all under mind control.

You see hate? Stop looking in the mirror.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Last I checked we have 139 B757-200s, 16 B757-300s, 16 B767-300s, & 69 A320s. And what defines "early generation?" Are you implying that Delta is parking all these airplanes by the end of the announced deliveries?

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

DL employed 10,400 pilots in 2001. I was 6822 when I got my seniority number in 2007... we are at 11,800 after merging with Northwest which had ~5500 pilots. The numbers speak for themselves! Timbo was speaking on reality when it comes to past actions in regard to growth.