You have a right to your views.

That's not my understanding, but I'm certainly not an expert in the internal budgetary workings of the DALPA funded ALPA treasury. The main take away is that ALPA keeps every penny of dues monies contributed by Delta pilots. Our new union will get none of our money back.

As stated above, ALPA intends to keep all Delta pilots' money. Our new union will have to begin our financials with zero. ALPA uses that as a set of handcuffs to ensure nobody leaves. I don't think that will work with Delta pilots IMO. And I wouldn't be counting on Kitty Hawk as "risk management."

No, we're all patriots in my view. We just have different views on representation.

Carl

If you'll look at my previous posts you'll note that I said that the vote/transition would take 12-18 months. I meant 2015 in the date but lets talk about my issue in that bullet point the issue being dues go up without a vote which is something that can not happen today. I got lazy going back to cut and paste because you were lazy in talking and more interested in debasing me. Let's talk about the rest of the DPA goals relating to the contract as it relates to my statement.

Point 1. The Delta MEC has always opened the contract early and prior to six months for as long as I have been here. To wit the early exchange has been in the PWA as 270 days prior to the amendable date for a long time. At minimum this meets the DPA language of "or upon early opening of negotiations if greater than six (6) months prior to the amendable date" or early 2015 or even earlier. In the extreme possibility that the vote and transfer happened before 2015 and TWO FULL FISCAL YEAR CYCLES then dues would still automatically go up to 2% (higher than today) without a vote and stay there until Section 6 is over. The Delta pilots under ALPA policy today can not be assessed money without it going to the entire membership for vote.

We don't increase our dues at the Delta MEC today for Section 6 we go and get it from ALPA like we did in C2K when we spent over $7 million of which more than $6 million came from Herndon. We didn't spend $7 million on C2012 and that money went right back to the pilots. For the NWA strike the NWA MEC didn't raise dues. The NWA pilots used almost $5 million from Herndon.

Note 1. A merger between now and 2015 also triggers the same automatic dues increase without a vote.

Point 2. Interim Negotiating Committee Chairman Mike Protack said "1. A contract which is understandable, enforceable and beneficial to both parties and should not exceed 200 pages. The average line pilot should be able to fully grasp all provisions of the contract and easily know their responsibilities while also easily determining if the Company is in violation of any area." The only way you could you reduce our 466 page contract into 200 pages if if you started early, otherwise you would be prolonging Section 6. You would have to start earlier than 6 months or 270 days in order to be done when you needed to be. Lets not haggle about that either way it.s 2.25% for Section 6 until the time it's complete.

Point 3. Best case scenario for Section 6 would be what? USAPA has been in Section 6 for 9 years and are stuck in 2004. APA has effectively been in Section 6 for 7 years because they opened 18 months early in 2006. They also had to deal with the $45 million injunction out of their own pockets. Now there is a bright hope in that others have only been in Section 6 for a year so far. FedEx did a short term contract to extend leaving them in an extended Section 6. Sometime at or before 2015 dues would go to either 2% (only if 2 full fiscal cycles) or 2.25% without a vote and stay there until Section 6 is over.

Does anyone here really believe that there won't be an early opener (270 or sooner) or that a merger won't happen before 12/15? If so then your dues are still going up without a vote which has been my issue. The dates are just convenient fodder and I wouldn't have messed them u except you made me repeat myself so many times that I cut and pasted poorly.

Let's try it this way. My issue is that the DPA Constitution says dues will automatically go up by .5% for 3 specific events including Section 6 without a vote and stay there until the event is over. This is something that can not happen today and is not an improvement that places "The final control of the Association shall be vested in the membership." in my opinion.

If you want to argue about a few months being off in the timeline sobeit but the fact remains the DPA Constitution as written today says dues will go up without a vote for all these events.

Ok Carl. Per your request(which I found more then fair) I went back and read a few pages. It seems one of the main points of contention is that DPA dues may not increase prior to 6 months before the amendable date of our PWA. Several claim that dues can increase 6 months prior to Sec 6, which you dispute. You claim that dues can not be increased prior to July 1, 2015, correct?


So I ask again. What is this from the DPA constitution?


So if we enter Sec 6 as early as possible, that's 270 days prior to the amendable date? Correct? So again, how will dues NOT go to 2.25% prior to July 1, 2015?

You sure about that one? I was hired in the same month with a seniority number of 99XX.

so this is where it all begins.........

https://sphotos-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/h...83934737_n.jpg

carry on!

Look dude, I gotta tell ya, I'm only skimming your posts now. You are so wordy and unfocused, I just lose interest.

From my skimming, I think you're admitting you got your first bullet point wrong. Your dates are just flat wrong. Now to your angst regarding dues' ability to go up 0.5% without MEMRAT for clearly defined special circumstances...I'm fine with that. ALPA can (and has) made major changes to our contract via LOA's. No MEMRAT. But if you now have MEMRAT fervor, I'm good with that too. You put forth a resolution to your block rep requiring MEMRAT for a 0.5% dues increase for special circumstances, and I'll back you.

Is this horse still twitching? Shall we move on to the second bullet point of your first laundry list from yesterday?

Carl

Well I'm not one to balk at some more paid vacation, but this beard is outta control. Somethings gotta give, but it's become a battle of attrition. I don't want to shave it until I have to, just because it's probably a once in a career thing. (Until I fall off a ladder, or just start generally falling apart medically.)

A reduction in what? How do you reduce a category without displacements?

Cliff notes:

DPA Constitution

3. The dues rate shall be 1.75% upon initial certification by the National Mediation Board. On January 1st of the second full fiscal year following initial certification, the dues rate shall drop annually by 0.25% every year until reaching a minimum dues rate of 1%. Special Circumstance Exception: Six (6) months prior to the amendable date of the Pilot Working Agreement, or upon early opening of negotiations if greater than six (6) months prior to the amendable date, or upon notification of a possible bankruptcy or merger initiated by the Company, the dues rate will temporarily increase by 0.5% until the new contract is ratified, or bankruptcy proceedings or merger integration is complete.

DPA Fiscal Year Jan-Jan

2nd full fiscal year would be Jan 2015, but only if vote happen prior to January 2014 otherwise the second full fiscal year would be 2016.

Increase done via existing constitution as written and without a vote.

To change the constitution requires a 2/3 Executive Board vote AND a simple majority vote of the membership.

Yep, pretty sure. I got a copy of the seniority list from then somewhere around in a file. Kept all the papers I was handed and just shoved them in a folder. Might have to go mining.