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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1504008)
Would you like to know who voted for and against the recall of KR?
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1504008)
Would you like to know who voted for and against the recall of KR?
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Originally Posted by Roadkill
(Post 1504035)
Of course I would. I'd think that info as a minimum could be included with the DALPA email I just got telling me KR was recalled. Do you have it?
Here you go. Very close. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/1503929-post309.html |
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Originally Posted by Roadkill
(Post 1503998)
We'll have to rely on an insider to tell us what really happened, and I'd bet everyone will be toeing the party line precisely now that they've seen the axe get bloody.
Looks like the Moakies have yet again proven that they do politics better than just about anyone. So I'll expect to see them leading us down the same path to mediocrity we've been on ever since Delta came out of bankruptcy. You know, the one that has us STILL 32%+ below the buying power we had before all this madness started (and damn glad to be there). No restoration with this group... only excuses as to why it can't happen and/or shouldn't be pursued. I think the only possible solution is DPA, but I don't have high confidence in that solution either. Oh well, at least I still really like to fly. There are more important things in life than money. I'll vote for DPA if it comes to it, though. I'd rather have the Girl Scouts representing me than ALPA. http://cdn.motinetwork.net/motifake....1254428198.jpg |
Originally Posted by Roadkill
(Post 1503998)
I'm of course bummed that full minutes aren't available now, and not until scrubbed by the MEC sometime in the future. We'll have to rely on an insider to tell us what really happened, and I'd bet everyone will be toeing the party line precisely now that they've seen the axe get bloody. ACL or anyone else there?
Two of the Council 20 Representatives, Bill and Rich, attended a Special meeting of the MEC for the last two days. Tom was unable to attend due to a preexisting commitment. Today was day 2 of a Special MEC meeting in Atlanta. The MEC Chairman, Capt. Kingsley Roberts was recalled from office via roll call vote. A 2/3s senatorial vote is required to recall a MEC Officer, which in the case of the 19 voting member Delta MEC, is 13 voting for recall. Should that level not be reached, but at least 50% is reached, in this case 10 in favor, the item may be reconsidered via roll call. A roll call vote is considered successful if 50% +1 are in favor. The senatorial vote failed to reach the 2/3s with 10 voting in favor, 9 voting against. A roll call vote was then requested by one of the Council 44 First Officer Representatives. The MEC then voted in favor of recall with 6145 votes in favor and 4617 against. Senatorial votes occur via secret ballot. The Roll Call voting breakdown is as follows: Council 1 (MSP): 1331 roll call against Council 16 (LAX): 520 in favor Council 20 (DTW): 1823 against Council 44 (ATL): 3944 in favor Council 48 (ATL-Training): 172 against Council 54 (SEA): 547 against Council 66 (NYC): CA Rep 619 against, FO Rep 897 in favor Council 81 (SLC): 610 in favor Council 108 (CVG): CA Rep 153 in favor, FO Rep 125 against/20 in favor The recall of the MEC Vice Chair, MEC Secretary and MEC Treasurer are as follows: The recall of the MEC Vice Chair failed, with 5 in favor, 13 against and one abstention The recall of the MEC Secretary failed, with 8 in favor, 10 against and one abstention The recall of the MEC Treasurer failed, with 19 against, and none in favor. As a result, the MEC Chairman was recalled. Capt. James Van Sickle as vice chair becomes acting Chairman. The remaining officers remain in their position. A special MEC meeting will be scheduled within 60 days for the election of MEC Chair for the remainder of the former Chair's term. The officers and pilots of Council 20 wish to thank CA Kingsley Roberts for his long service to the pilots of Delta Airlines. |
I sat through the whole meeting. Both days.
It was an open meeting the entire time for any ALPA member in good standing. There were several points where the discussion moved into areas where it might have been appropriate to close the meeting but our reps worked hard to frame their questions and comments in such a way that this whole process could remain completely open and transparent to all the Delta pilots. That was greatly appreciated. I hope everyone will indulge me in relaying just one ordinary line pilot's perspective on what transpired. I speak only for myself and I apologize for the length of this post. First the bare facts: The first order of business was the recall of Treasurer Bren Fries. The MEC debated that agenda item and voted 19-0 in a secret ballot against the recall. As the second item the MEC decided to move directly to the recall of the Master Chairman. That was debated extensively and the result of the secret ballot senatorial vote was 10 votes in favor of recalling Chairman Roberts and 9 votes opposed. According to the ALPA Constitution a 2/3 senatorial majority is required to recall but if a 50% or greater senatorial majority votes in favor of recall then a motion for a roll call vote can be made. That motion was made and a roll call vote was held. In a roll call vote each rep casts the number of votes equal to the number of pilots he represents and he can divide those votes any way he sees fit. Councils 16,44 and 81 reps voted to recall. Councils 1,20,48 and 54 reps were opposed. The Council 66 Capt rep voted against recall and the F/O rep voted in favor. The Council 108 Capt rep voted to recall and the F/O rep split his votes 20 in favor and 125 opposed. The final tally was 6145 to recall and 4617 opposed. The Master Chairman was recalled. Vice Chairman Jim Van Sickle then became acting Chairman. The next item was the recall of Secretary Kevin Guilfoyle. The maker of the resolution asked a couple brief questions, there was no discussion and the MEC then voted via secret ballot -- 8 in favor of recall, 10 opposed and 1 abstention. The last item was the recall of Vice Chair Van Sickle. The same brief questions were asked and the MEC then voted via secret ballot -- 5 in favor of recall, 13 opposed and 1 abstention. Acting Chairman Van Sickle then spoke about the upcoming important business of the MEC and adjourned the meeting. ---------------------------- Those of you who are regulars on these pages and have seen my posts over the years know that I am certainly not shy about offering criticism of ALPA or its leadership. I will admit (shame on me) that I don't go to many union meetings. But I've been to a few, I've seen some food fights and I have to say that this meeting was quite different than what I had expected. It was clear from the beginning that this was going to be an unpleasant exercise for all the reps and the administrators and all of them expressed during their comments that they wished they didn't have to be there doing this business. I didn't sense that any of them wanted to have a divisive battle whether it could be framed as North/South or old guard/new blood or whatever other division you want to name. Clearly there is some of all that behind the scenes but it never came out directly into the open and it never seemed to be a dominant factor over just getting the pilots business done. In keeping with that attitude, I was impressed, to the man, with the way the reps conducted themselves and the degree of professionalism that was maintained throughout this entire painful procedure. It was apparent to me that these guys whether they were in the majority or the minority had come to represent their constituents, fix what was wrong with our union, get this behind us and move on to the real business of getting us all a better contract. During the Chairman recall debate there were a lot of excellent (and very pointed) questions asked and a lot of vigorous debate among the reps and the administration officers about all the facts and circumstances that had led us to this point. There were of course some who arrived with their minds already made up about how they would vote but I think everyone listened objectively to the arguments and all in all it was a fair hearing. Everyone spoke their piece. There was plenty of detailed discussion about office politics and management style and miscommunication/noncommunication, etc. etc. much of which was difficult for us non-insiders to follow at times but I think the crucial testimony that really confirmed the outcome for anyone who may have been sitting on the fence came from the Chairman of the Negotiating Committee Scrappy Olmstead. His role is supposed to be pretty much non-political and I got the impression that to the extent anyone in such a high position can do it, he has been fairly successful at maintaining that distance from MEC politics during his tenure. His remarks seemed to carry special weight for that reason and also because his job is truly where the rubber meets the road for every line pilot. That's what made me listen extra carefully to what he had to say. He's the guy who's charged with getting me better pay and benefits. Scrappy gave an eloquent statement and basically said the bottom line was that these issues within the administration were beginning to have an effect on the ability of his committee to function successfully and that the MEC needed to fix it and fix it now. I think at that point the members knew that they had to make a change. It really came down to a choice between the Master Chairman and a significant portion of the rest of the administration. There were just enough key people who said they were friends with the Chairman, liked him and respected him but they were just unable to adapt to some of his decisions and the way he was running the office that it became clear to us in the back of the room what the MEC was going to have to do. I think it was also at that point that the one or two reps who truly hadn't made up their minds decided that they were going to have to act. The die was cast. There were a lot of things that came out in this meeting that we can discuss later but let me say something about Kingsley Roberts. I hope he won't mind. I had met him once before only briefly and I certainly don't know him well at all but I can say that from where I sat he was truly a class act throughout this whole thing. He spoke passionately in his own defense and fought hard for his beliefs. He listed quite a number of initiatives and accomplishments during his term and perhaps most impressive of all, he sat up there at that head table and kept his composure at all times even under withering fire. I don't think I would have been able to remain that calm. After the final vote, he accepted the judgment of the MEC with enormous grace and dignity. He received heartfelt thanks for his service to the Delta pilots and at that moment conducted himself in such a way to minimize any damage and divisiveness that might otherwise have resulted from what had just occurred. He rose from his seat, gathered his suit coat and briefcase and exited the room to a prolonged standing ovation from every single individual present. On his way out the door he accepted sincere handshakes from a selection of his most vocal opponents. And that was that. This thing is behind us now. I don't believe there's been any lasting damage. All the north/south stuff and the Moak conspiracy theories, etc. etc. are still there but none of that is preventing our MEC from conducting the business of the Delta pilots. We're going to have a new Chairman and I for one am going to go right back to telling my MEC reps that I'm underpaid and I don't have enough days off and I expect them to do a helluva lot better at fixing that situation. JMHO FWIW YMMV ... all that. |
Hey Alfa,
Post as often as you need to. We're your friends. |
Check Essential,
Sir, thank you for your time and your objective, first hand, report. Much appreciated. |
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1504205)
I sat through the whole meeting. Both days.
It was an open meeting the entire time for any ALPA member in good standing. There were several points where the discussion moved into areas where it might have been appropriate to close the meeting but our reps worked hard to frame their questions and comments in such a way that this whole process could remain completely open and transparent to all the Delta pilots. That was greatly appreciated. I hope everyone will indulge me in relaying just one ordinary line pilot's perspective on what transpired. I speak only for myself and I apologize for the length of this post. First the bare facts: The first order of business was the recall of Treasurer Bren Fries. The MEC debated that agenda item and voted 19-0 in a secret ballot against the recall. As the second item the MEC decided to move directly to the recall of the Master Chairman. That was debated extensively and the result of the secret ballot senatorial vote was 10 votes in favor of recalling Chairman Roberts and 9 votes opposed. According to the ALPA Constitution a 2/3 senatorial majority is required to recall but if a 50% or greater senatorial majority votes in favor of recall then a motion for a roll call vote can be made. That motion was made and a roll call vote was held. In a roll call vote each rep casts the number of votes equal to the number of pilots he represents and he can divide those votes any way he sees fit. Councils 16,44 and 81 reps voted to recall. Councils 1,20,48 and 54 reps were opposed. The Council 66 Capt rep voted against recall and the F/O rep voted in favor. The Council 108 Capt rep voted to recall and the F/O rep split his votes 20 in favor and 125 opposed. The final tally was 6145 to recall and 4617 opposed. The Master Chairman was recalled. Vice Chairman Jim Van Sickle then became acting Chairman. The next item was the recall of Secretary Kevin Guilfoyle. The maker of the resolution asked a couple brief questions, there was no discussion and the MEC then voted via secret ballot -- 8 in favor of recall, 10 opposed and 1 abstention. The last item was the recall of Vice Chair Van Sickle. The same brief questions were asked and the MEC then voted via secret ballot -- 5 in favor of recall, 13 opposed and 1 abstention. Acting Chairman Van Sickle then spoke about the upcoming important business of the MEC and adjourned the meeting. ---------------------------- Those of you who are regulars on these pages and have seen my posts over the years know that I am certainly not shy about offering criticism of ALPA or its leadership. I will admit (shame on me) that I don't go to many union meetings. But I've been to a few, I've seen some food fights and I have to say that this meeting was quite different than what I had expected. It was clear from the beginning that this was going to be an unpleasant exercise for all the reps and the administrators and all of them expressed during their comments that they wished they didn't have to be there doing this business. I didn't sense that any of them wanted to have a divisive battle whether it could be framed as North/South or old guard/new blood or whatever other division you want to name. Clearly there is some of all that behind the scenes but it never came out directly into the open and it never seemed to be a dominant factor over just getting the pilots business done. In keeping with that attitude, I was impressed, to the man, with the way the reps conducted themselves and the degree of professionalism that was maintained throughout this entire painful procedure. It was apparent to me that these guys whether they were in the majority or the minority had come to represent their constituents, fix what was wrong with our union, get this behind us and move on to the real business of getting us all a better contract. During the Chairman recall debate there were a lot of excellent (and very pointed) questions asked and a lot of vigorous debate among the reps and the administration officers about all the facts and circumstances that had led us to this point. There were of course some who arrived with their minds already made up about how they would vote but I think everyone listened objectively to the arguments and all in all it was a fair hearing. Everyone spoke their piece. There was plenty of detailed discussion about office politics and management style and miscommunication/noncommunication, etc. etc. much of which was difficult for us non-insiders to follow at times but I think the crucial testimony that really confirmed the outcome for anyone who may have been sitting on the fence came from the Chairman of the Negotiating Committee Scrappy Olmstead. His role is supposed to be pretty much non-political and I got the impression that to the extent anyone in such a high position can do it, he has been fairly successful at maintaining that distance from MEC politics during his tenure. His remarks seemed to carry special weight for that reason and also because his job is truly where the rubber meets the road for every line pilot. That's what made me listen extra carefully to what he had to say. He's the guy who's charged with getting me better pay and benefits. Scrappy gave an eloquent statement and basically said the bottom line was that these issues within the administration were beginning to have an effect on the ability of his committee to function successfully and that the MEC needed to fix it and fix it now. I think at that point the members knew that they had to make a change. It really came down to a choice between the Master Chairman and a significant portion of the rest of the administration. There were just enough key people who said they were friends with the Chairman, liked him and respected him but they were just unable to adapt to some of his decisions and the way he was running the office that it became clear to us in the back of the room what the MEC was going to have to do. I think it was also at that point that the one or two reps who truly hadn't made up their minds decided that they were going to have to act. The die was cast. There were a lot of things that came out in this meeting that we can discuss later but let me say something about Kingsley Roberts. I hope he won't mind. I had met him once before only briefly and I certainly don't know him well at all but I can say that from where I sat he was truly a class act throughout this whole thing. He spoke passionately in his own defense and fought hard for his beliefs. He listed quite a number of initiatives and accomplishments during his term and perhaps most impressive of all, he sat up there at that head table and kept his composure at all times even under withering fire. I don't think I would have been able to remain that calm. After the final vote, he accepted the judgment of the MEC with enormous grace and dignity. He received heartfelt thanks for his service to the Delta pilots and at that moment conducted himself in such a way to minimize any damage and divisiveness that might otherwise have resulted from what had just occurred. He rose from his seat, gathered his suit coat and briefcase and exited the room to a prolonged standing ovation from every single individual present. On his way out the door he accepted sincere handshakes from a selection of his most vocal opponents. And that was that. This thing is behind us now. I don't believe there's been any lasting damage. All the north/south stuff and the Moak conspiracy theories, etc. etc. are still there but none of that is preventing our MEC from conducting the business of the Delta pilots. We're going to have a new Chairman and I for one am going to go right back to telling my MEC reps that I'm underpaid and I don't have enough days off and I expect them to do a helluva lot better at fixing that situation. JMHO FWIW YMMV ... all that. I only sat through yesterday, and couldn't make today. Yesterday, if I were in the seat, there wasn't enough to pull the trigger and recall. today, from my understanding, was a much different story. I especially agree that we still don;t get paid enough, and we need to take a big bite of the apple with FAR 117. |
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