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Old 12-12-2013 | 04:33 AM
  #144721  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Please post where she said anything close to that. I read that PowerPoint in its entirety and do not recall that definition being made at all.

Carl
She made that statement to the MEC. The powerpoint had something almost the same. The NMB has in practice applied that exact definition in dealing with airlines. She mentioned in her chat with the MEC icing American as a example. The power point and her discussion also made it clear that if she had to get involved we were looking at 3 years minimum because of their backlog.
Old 12-12-2013 | 04:42 AM
  #144722  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Although Leo Mullin was an idiot who's negligence nearly killed Delta, I will agree with his general point that big airplanes should pay much more than they do ... unfortunately ... the converse is also true ... there should not be as many 50 seat Captains making $120,000 to $150,000 a year.

It has long been my point that if you distribute pay along a productivity curve it would make sense to redistribute pay upwards from the RJ's; if the RJ's were captured at mainline. But, as separate entities with nontransferable longevity they negotiate the most they can get.

Consider that more than a handful of Delta pilots took a $100,000 a year pay cut to start over here. IMHO capturing that flying even at reduced rates is preferable to the loss of a pilot's longevity mid career.
Old 12-12-2013 | 04:47 AM
  #144723  
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Originally Posted by newKnow
You guys are just that good. No miracles needed. Either way, it's going to be great game.


I don't know about 80, but I don't cheer against God. Ymmv.
Old 12-12-2013 | 04:47 AM
  #144724  
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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
A more accurate comparison would be our M88, 737, and 320 pilots vs SWA. I leave out the DC-9's and 717's because they are fleets in transition.
Your correct that would be a more accurate number however I could not find that data broken out. In general the wifebodies have less credit then the narrow bodies so that would reduce narrow body productivity at Delta slightly.
Another factor is training costs. They run about 10 percent of pilot costs at Delta. SW also has training costs but far less. Assuming SW is about 2 percent of their pilot costs then 8 percent of our cost disadvantage over SW is driven by management fleet choices.
Old 12-12-2013 | 04:47 AM
  #144725  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
Its being mandated by the airport authority. Its 5 to 6 minutes on the train to Federal station. You save time by the shorter drive distance in the van. In traffic it might in fact be faster. If however you come into terminal 2 where there is no train stop it becomes a real issue. Terminal 4 its not even a real inconvenience.
What do we do from Terminal #2? Hoof it? Or, bus to #4?

The Hotels were pushing for this change for years. As a junior reserve guy getting DH to NY a lot; the transportation never showed up. I used to take the train to Federal Station because that was the only way to get reliably picked up without a 30 to 45 minute wait for "he'll be right there." Talking to the drivers, they basically wanted to refuse driving to the airport because of the traffic/inconvenience/time away from the coffee and paper at the hotel.
Old 12-12-2013 | 04:52 AM
  #144726  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
What do we do from Terminal #2? Hoof it? Or, bus to #4?

The Hotels were pushing for this change for years. As a junior reserve guy the transportation never showed up. I used to take the train to Federal Station because that was the only way to get reliably picked up without a 30 to 45 minute wait for "he'll be right there." Talking to the drivers, they basically wanted to refuse driving to the airport because of the traffic/inconvenience/time away from the coffee and paper at the hotel.
Hoof it to terminal 1 or ride the bus to terminal 4.
Old 12-12-2013 | 05:00 AM
  #144727  
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Originally Posted by boog123
I know I have read that some long 2 pilot domestic transcon turns are not possible under part 117 due to departure times, etc., but what if they were augmented? I appears a 3 man crew could fly up to 13 hours if they took off in the correct duty window. I know airlines do this for long Latin America turns, why not domestically?
This has always been allowed under both the old and new rest rules. Under the old rules if you add a relief pilot you could fly 12 hour days with no restrictions on legs. The new rules allow something similiar but reduce the time for the number of legs. Lots of airlines fly turns like this with relief pilots. They will continue to do that under 117.
At Delta our contract prohibits this practice unless a rest seat meeting minimum contractual standards is installed. The cost to put that type of seat into the entire A320, 737 fleet has kept Delta from making the switch. Instead Delta chooses to double crew those flights. One crew flies and the other DH's. We are the only airline doing that. Everyone else puts the relief guy in a passenger seat. Some airlines use coach others first class.
Old 12-12-2013 | 05:02 AM
  #144728  
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Sailingfun's data is only block hours.

It doesn't count credit time, vacation time, sick leave, training, or green slip pay, all of which are built into the 87 number.

If the typical guy has 5 hrs of credit a month, 120 hours of sick leave annually, 100 hours of vacation time annually, 10 hours of CQ annually and 80 hours of initial training every few years, that adds up to 25+ hours/month on average. Throw in a couple of green slips per year, and you're there.
As discussed before, MIT has no metric to breakout international 3 and 4 pilot operations. So when the math is done a 2 pilot SW rotation worth 20 block hours = 2 pilot flying 20 hours but at DAL a 4 pilot 20 hour rotation would would only show each pilot flying 10 hours.

The folks at MIT may be smart but their just looking at raw numbers and without data on which flight are crewed above 2 pilots (which I don't believe is reported anywhere)., the data is flawed. As I recall the formula used is (block hours flown) X (2 pilots) / total pilots. Delta does break down pilots by aircraft type so it the math could be done by fleet.
Old 12-12-2013 | 05:48 AM
  #144729  
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Originally Posted by DeadHead
This whole extending a REG pilot at the end of his rotation is complete bull. Extending a pilot to pick up extra legs on his last day should pay green slip pay at the very least. This whole REG line pilot being used as a hot reserve is a big ol' pile of malarkey. I get the occasional reroute mid trip or delays outside the company's control, but the extra legs added on is extremely jive turkey.
Somewhat happened last trip for me. On the last leg (SEA-SLC) we had a rolling MX issue and the jet was taken out of service. Instead of a deadhead back to base and replace us with another crew, they put us up for 12 hrs and had us show at 5AM to fly the jet back.

We were back at base about 17 hrs past scheduled release. They could have got us back to base that night, but being a weekend staffed with no RES, we got the short end of the stick!

I hate losing a day off!!
Old 12-12-2013 | 05:48 AM
  #144730  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
If however you come into terminal 2 where there is no train stop it becomes a real issue. Terminal 4 its not even a real inconvenience.
The Air Train still stops at Terminal 2. It was always a stop for 2/3. They just took out the bridge over to 3.
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