Wife is busy today so I am going solo with my 2 kiddos
Is the movie ok for a 4 year old girl? or will she just prevent me from enjoying the movie?

My 7 year old has been dying to see it

 

That is a perfect cliff version of the ALPA roadshows to sell us C2012. I'm sure that is what the company told them and the believed it so I guess we can only blame ourselves for taking the bait second hand. I guess that's what we should expect when we send in the negotiators that got a weekend crash course vs. professional negotiators for the largest airline in the world.

 

I would love to see you produce one tiny shred of evidence that this anything approaching a true statement. You look like a fool when you repeat this kind of drivel.

But for the sake of argument, why do you think that a "professional negotiator" who has zero skin in the game (he is going to get paid regardless of the outcome) will have any idea the requirements and pitfalls of what it is like to be an airline pilot? What is it about this particular phrase or concept... "professional negotiator" that makes you and others think that we will get a better deal? How are they going to know what it is that we need? How will they know what we are willing to accept? What if they have to make a decision in the room on the fly? How will they do that? And lastly but most importantly, who is to blame if they make a professional decision, and YOU are not happy with that decision? What is your recourse. Remember, his response is probably going to be "too bad, so sad, my check better clear"....

Stupid, stupid charges you level.

 

Perhaps exhibit "A" might be C2012? I'm just sayin'….

 

I went to a roadshow and hiring was NEVER mentioned (LGA). Every aspect including the potential net reduction of 125 positions was made clear, and guys asked honest questions. Far from a sales job, I was present for the NC telling us clearly where the gains and where the warts were.

Couple things. Our MEC elected pilot negotiators usually have lots of overlap to prevent a knowledge drain year in and year out. It's way more than a crash course, and the other background skills and knowledge are much more suited to airline contracts than "Joe lawyer negotiator." We have the top RLA labor negotiating firm on retainer and never go into a meeting without attorneys present.

The Comapy doesn't have professional negotiators. Think Steve D., Tim H. Glen H., J. Graham, with a lawyer from DL corporate, rarely but on occasion Glen C.

None of those people are professional negotiators, save "maybe" their labor lawyer, but even he doesn't have the experience in RLA/pilot contracts that Cohen, Weiss, and Simon lawyers have amassed.

BTW, D-ALPA hired an outside law firm to do some negotiations work during C2K and were fired well before the end game because they were unable to grasp the complexities of the PWA. They were useless to the negotiating effort. It was a waste of our dues dollars, and made that last dues refund check even smaller.

Your yes or no vote is fine either way by me, it wasn't an easy call (I changed my vote 3 times). But it's disingenuous to say it was "sold" with hiring promises or that our negotiators are subpar.

 

The information from DALPA, which is still available on the website, predicted a staffing impact of 180 pilots through 2013 as more aircraft join the mainline. Delta's SEC filing indicates that the mainline fleet grew by 26 aircraft in 2013. So far the information that DALPA put out seems to be correct.

As for professional negotiators, as ALPA pilots we use professional negotiators with decades of experience negotiating pilot contracts. These negotiators are the best in the industry and work side by side with our elected negotiating committee and our expanded negotiating team.

 

I think that about covers it.

However, not even the most expensive negotiators on the planet can help us if we're not willing/able to send back a rushed, shortsighted, POS.

 

Yeah, I'm just sayin' 62.7% agree with you. Oh wait....

Nobody is saying it's enough and we should go away quietly! We made solid gains and broke a huge logjam in the industry, and did it with a short term deal that let's us open up right after momma DAL has back-to-back $3.4B+ PTIX years and the rest of the industry isn't lagging us by hundreds and hundreds of millions already! It's right in the wheelhouse to make very big improvements easily justifiable to the NMB (you know, that Govt entity that controls if we are released to strike?!?!)

 

you mean "agreed." past tense.

I wonder how many "agree" now that increased medical premiums/out of pocket expenses have eaten up whatever was left of that 3% raise after COLA increases.

4-8-3-3 was an embarrassment, plain and simple.

 

Classic. You have zero proof that a "professional negotiator" would bring us a better product. All you have is hopey changey (what a grrrrreat philosophy THAT is). The premise that our negotiators had a "weekend crash course" is a flawed one and really is pathetic, but it goes to the mindset that you believe Heiko and the others went in there totally alone, uninformed and completely clueless. I would rather have our guys in there (with all the resources that the national union brings with them) than some hired gun that has no skin in the game, and is just there until the money runs out.

I'm guessing that if we did have "professionals" in there, and they brought us a crappy product that you and PD would be the first in line to crucify dALPA for wasting our dues money. The hypocrisy is palpable in this discussion.