Not to mention the fact that the bottom of the Delta list that was furloughed after 9/11 were actually regional pilots when the scope was sold and the PID was blocked. So explain to me how we were responsible for that when we weren't even on the property when all that happened?

 

If you're not a Delta Air Lines employee, how would you get profit sharing check to begin with?

You wouldn't. So how is a Delta employee earning nice profit sharing checks off the backs of a regional FO if the regional FO isn't an employee of Delta Air Lines?

I mean should I have complained that Continental pilots were getting to fly 777s off my back as a Coex E145 FO?

 

Furloughs were back to early 2000 correct? The CRJ was already here long before that right?

 

Bar, I understand where you are coming from, but "We" didn't even have membership ratification until our 1996 contract. The RJ's started showing up in 1991-2. There was no scope protection in our contract at that time for a 36 or 50 seat jet owned and operated by Com Air or ASA.

When I lost my MD88 Capt. seat in 1993, and all our short haul, DC9 flying was given to Com Air and ASA, and for the first time in the history of Delta Air Lines, pilots were being furloughed, I called my DALPA Rep. and screamed at him, for a good 45 minutes.

Most of my rant was along the lines of, "W. T. F. are you idiots doing??"

The answer I got, from our leadership, who voted on our contract, without membership ratification, was, "You don't want to fly those little jets, RJ Capt. would pay less than L1011 Engineer, and we can't have a Capt. making less than an Engineer..."

I was now a 757 F/O again (after being displaced by the loss of our DC9's) and I said, "You're right, I don't want to fly a 50 seat RJ, but I'll bet all our FURLOUGHED PILOTS would LOVE to fly it!"

DALPA was very arrogant, but so was JC Lawson. Later, after Delta bought Com Air and ASA, and guys like me were screaming at our MEC to put them all on our list and our contract, because we could see the writing on the wall, our MEC went to talk to their MEC's about single carrier status, and adding them to our list, and our contract.

JC wanted date of hire... which would have put JC in the left seat of a 767ER.

So who was the greedy prick keeping the RJ Pilot's down?

End of story.

I hope he's happy now....douche bag that he is.

 

I can not speak for Comair. But, as a substitutes for structural unity (ie one list) are ineffective, even if well intentioned.

Strategically, once we failed unity; we lost.

 

Timbo,

You were right. As for mergers, by pay check or equipment, JC's status quo was a staple. Now he is on the street, along with Captain Ford and others. They should have been "grateful for a staple," but they were reading merger policy list a sequential checklist without understanding the politics.

 

The RJ is inconsequential. ASA and Comair were in the process of acquiring DC9's and 737s. If it had not been one type, it would have been another.

The distinction was the decision to break unity.

 

Well, we tried. But it was never presented to the membership as, "Hey, let's sell 50% of our narrow body flying for a 5% pay raise!" That never would have gone over.

What was happening in 1993 was, Mo'Ron Allen was saying things like, "You give me a 5% pay cut, or I'll sell all the 737's..." And he was furloughing pilots left and right, and he'd just gotten rid of all the DC9's, so yeah, we believed he would do it. He really was that stupid.

Instead, in 1996, he put all the 737-200's into a new B scale, called Delta Express, where the Capt. would make $100/hr. (down from about $148/hr) with a two year freeze, where all the other seats only had a 12mo. freeze and paid a whole lot more.

We should have brought all the ASA and Com Air guys onto our list the minute Delta bough them, and controlled 100% of our flying, all the way down to the 36 seat RJ, and nipped the whipsawing in the bud.

But hindsight is always 20/20. I just hope the clowns at National have learned a lesson, but after seeing what they just did to Pinacle, it don't look good.

 

True, but two pilot groups have stood up now, Expressjet and Eagle. Republic responded by inking an industry leading contract.

Our leadership at national does most things right.

Yes, I think they are wrong on outsourcing. But, they are smart men. They will adapt, they will run the numbers, they will evolve. Otherwise, they will be remembered for their service as others replace them.

We speak with the conviction of men who know we are right.

 

I've been grappling with this issue since my first flying job at 19.

WHO decides what we are worth?

Last time I checked, nobody in the CEO seat has an ATP. They cannot do our job. Nobody can do our jobs, unless they have the license and the quals. ALPA should be able to shut it down any time they don't like what the CEO is cooking. But there are some of us who would cross a picket line, obviously.

Look at CAL in 1983. I got front row seats at that one, I could have scabbed and been a 24yr. old 727 Capt. like a few of the A-holes I was flying cancelled checks with did. But I understood what they were fighting for, and I wanted their pilots to win. Then I got to see it agian, with Eastern in MIA.

I knew some dirtbags who crossed the CAL line, and I had a lot of Eastern friends who lost everything.

So when is ALPA going to play the SOS card? Without that, we are all fkd, as we saw after 9-11 and the loss of all ALPA Pensions, pay cuts, etc. Nobody at National wants to get their hands dirty.

They're gettin' paid. They've got a retirement.

Or maybe they know Congress would sell our jobs to Emirates/Quatar/Etihad/China in a NY minute, if we make a stink and ask for "Too Much".

If I were king, there'd be a National Contract, with a floor for all payrates, benefits, etc. No more whipsawing and outsourcing to the lowest bidders.