Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-15-2014 | 09:04 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2005
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Forget the whole on-the-backs-of discussion with regard to pilots.
To really get down to the most extreme example, look no further than this:
Delta to contract out 741 jobs at Detroit Metropolitan Airport | The Detroit News
741 DGS employees at DTW are going to be laid off and re-hired at lower rates again. How many times have they already been through this?
Very sad.
The entire concourse B/C experience at DTW reflects this.
To really get down to the most extreme example, look no further than this:
Delta to contract out 741 jobs at Detroit Metropolitan Airport | The Detroit News
741 DGS employees at DTW are going to be laid off and re-hired at lower rates again. How many times have they already been through this?
Very sad.
The entire concourse B/C experience at DTW reflects this.
02-16-2014 | 03:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
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From: DAL A320 CA
Funny..
Rj Captains couldn't care less when they replaced fellow ALPA mainline pilots. In fact, they formed the RJDC and sued.
Now, when some other poor guys undercut them in a race to the bottom, RJ Captains are now the "pillar of unity"..fighting the good fight..(as they leave for SWA/Jblu or flow up to Delta) and leave their FO's holding the Bag O'crap they made for them.
Give me a break..
Again..my original post was in response to Junglebus's "delta pilots enjoy profit sharing ion the backs of rj pilots".
I just wanted to point out that RJ captains got a pretty good deal.
Rj Captains couldn't care less when they replaced fellow ALPA mainline pilots. In fact, they formed the RJDC and sued.
Now, when some other poor guys undercut them in a race to the bottom, RJ Captains are now the "pillar of unity"..fighting the good fight..(as they leave for SWA/Jblu or flow up to Delta) and leave their FO's holding the Bag O'crap they made for them.
Give me a break..
Again..my original post was in response to Junglebus's "delta pilots enjoy profit sharing ion the backs of rj pilots".
I just wanted to point out that RJ captains got a pretty good deal.
Last edited by CGfalconHerc; 02-16-2014 at 04:07 AM.
02-16-2014 | 03:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
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Well, we tried. But it was never presented to the membership as, "Hey, let's sell 50% of our narrow body flying for a 5% pay raise!" That never would have gone over.
What was happening in 1993 was, Mo'Ron Allen was saying things like, "You give me a 5% pay cut, or I'll sell all the 737's..."
And he was furloughing pilots left and right, and he'd just gotten rid of all the DC9's, so yeah, we believed he would do it. He really was that stupid.
Instead, in 1996, he put all the 737-200's into a new B scale, called Delta Express, where the Capt. would make $100/hr. (down from about $148/hr) with a two year freeze, where all the other seats only had a 12mo. freeze and paid a whole lot more.
We should have brought all the ASA and Com Air guys onto our list the minute Delta bough them, and controlled 100% of our flying, all the way down to the 36 seat RJ, and nipped the whipsawing in the bud.
But hindsight is always 20/20. I just hope the clowns at National have learned a lesson, but after seeing what they just did to Pinacle, it don't look good.
What was happening in 1993 was, Mo'Ron Allen was saying things like, "You give me a 5% pay cut, or I'll sell all the 737's..."
And he was furloughing pilots left and right, and he'd just gotten rid of all the DC9's, so yeah, we believed he would do it. He really was that stupid.Instead, in 1996, he put all the 737-200's into a new B scale, called Delta Express, where the Capt. would make $100/hr. (down from about $148/hr) with a two year freeze, where all the other seats only had a 12mo. freeze and paid a whole lot more.
We should have brought all the ASA and Com Air guys onto our list the minute Delta bough them, and controlled 100% of our flying, all the way down to the 36 seat RJ, and nipped the whipsawing in the bud.
But hindsight is always 20/20. I just hope the clowns at National have learned a lesson, but after seeing what they just did to Pinacle, it don't look good.
The company was not going to abandon their devide and conquer strategy under any circumstances. It was then and still is today a cornerstone of management philosophy.
02-16-2014 | 04:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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Not to mention the fact that the bottom of the Delta list that was furloughed after 9/11 were actually regional pilots when the scope was sold and the PID was blocked. So explain to me how we were responsible for that when we weren't even on the property when all that happened?
In the 2001 contract where we gave up scope pay was set in stone literally years before with the agreements on the 737NG, 764 and 777 and the subsequent UAL contract. In fact pay was never really an issue and management and DALPA differed very little on what the pay rates were going to be. The only pay issue was a very short lived table position to band pay rates by management. Scope was the last thing settled in the contract long after pay rates were already sent to the printers.
02-16-2014 | 04:08 AM
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02-16-2014 | 04:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
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From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
ASA was never acquiring 737 or DC-9 aircraft. The only thing I ever heard was Comair buying DC-9 or 737 aircraft in the mid 90's. We had scope in the 1996 contract that would have prevented any of that. I believe Comair was attempting to acquire the aircraft for a "charter" operation. That was almost 20 years ago so I may be wrong. The only "large" aircraft allowed in the 1996 contract were the BAE-146's and ATR-72's that ASA already had acquired.
02-16-2014 | 04:29 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: ATL717A
I have a hard time understanding how we sold scope back then, to sell something you generally have to own it. Our scope was essentially zero until the 91 contract. There was nothing to sell. In fact as pointed out RA was threatening to move all aircraft smaller then a 757 to ASA and Comair and under the current scope he could have done it. We were able in the 91 agreement to finally get some scope. We would fly all jets over 70 seats. No limits below that on jets or on turboprops of any size.
02-16-2014 | 04:29 AM
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From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Nope, we were hiring 100 a month in early 2000. We had announced a halt in hiring just prior to 9/11 as the economy was starting to soften. Furloughs didn't start until early 2012, if I recall. There were contractual limitations, maybe some of the victims of "Force Manure" can enlighten us. I just flew with a 2001 hire yesterday.
Last edited by dalad; 02-16-2014 at 04:41 AM.
02-16-2014 | 04:30 AM
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From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
It's been a long time, so I'm calling on a lot of gray cells to cooperate, but I flew the BAe-146 at ASA in 1995-96, which was configured with 88 seats (originally 108 seats). I took a lot of grief from my Delta "brothers" in my Reserve unit because I was flying the scope-liner (yes, it was all my fault).
02-16-2014 | 04:32 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
ASA was never acquiring 737 or DC-9 aircraft. The only thing I ever heard was Comair buying DC-9 or 737 aircraft in the mid 90's. We had scope in the 1996 contract that would have prevented any of that. I believe Comair was attempting to acquire the aircraft for a "charter" operation. That was almost 20 years ago so I may be wrong. The only "large" aircraft allowed in the 1996 contract were the BAE-146's and ATR-72's that ASA already had acquired.
ASA did whatever it wanted with it's own code.
Google how Val u Jet was formed.
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