Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1585073)

I'll take an exception to this. My fellow pilots and I want some things that will cost the company $.

* Industry leading duty period average increased from our current 5:15 to 5:42(SWA). Eliminate the back side of the clock carve outs.

* Increasing vacation pay from 3:15 to the industry leading 6 (FDX). Sh!t, I'd even settle for 5 but don't tell them that.

* increasing training pay that is currently 3:45 to the industry leading 4:23 to 4:30 range (SWA & others).

* Oh, and the most important, obtaining a medical plan that is some what affordable. Reference Southwest Airlines PPO plan that comes in way below our plans.

Shiz, your response didn't seem to track with what PD and Check were writing. No one says we should demand they start "unprofitable operations" like that ridiculous 777 service from ATL to MCO.

What they are saying is that we need to negotiate and obtain benefits that will cost the company money. By nature, they will be less profitable. We will have to break some eggs to make this omelette.

They (Pd and check) are taking exception to those who believe that by merely asking and bargaining for such items as listed above, they will cost the company money, and thus they take it upon themselves to try and "tamp down our costs."

In order to have a truly industry leading contract that even gets close to getting our '96 wages back (adjusted for inflation) instead of C2k restoration, it is not going to be one of those "zero cost contracts" that management parrots to Wall Street. It's going to have an impact on their profitability.

Is that wrong?

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1585390)

I have no idea of this 617 that you speak. And the entire country is not burning, but my heart goes out to the people of Ukraine....

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1585392)

I'll take Pete Rose over Barry Bonds all day and twice on Sunday.

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1585392)

Not wrong at all. The age old question is how many eggs CAN you break? We'll argue this back and forth for a long time, and some will agree, some won't. All I will say is this: "professional" negotiators are no panacea, and holding out for the grand slam will cost more money by the time you are up to bat with enough men on base. YMMV. I'll take Pete Rose over Barry Bonds all day and twice on Sunday.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1585142)

Actually I'd like to see us be the only US airline to actually compete in MCO-EU. Its a mssive market, with more heavy jumbos there at any given time than we have flying all over the world total (well, almost) and I think we can compete. Of course, you have to get the plane there and back, and ATL-MCO is a market that's perhaps better served by the occasional heavy rather than spamming it with hourly frequency in a leisure market that doesn't reward that much frequency in the slightest. So the occasional 777 to MCO actually wouldn't be a bad idea.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1585366)

Wow a BA Captain tops out at $179k?

Originally Posted by trlaketige (Post 1585174)

That's true. Their knowledge and my best interests don't always align. And after the bankruptcy negotiations I wouldn't think you would blindly trust them either.

Tr

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1585405)

I don't know....I had Pete on a flight recently. Pretty underwhelming.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1585176)

Hit the nail on the head.

Our bagtags and lanyards ought to say "C2016: Industry-Leading EVERYTHING!" and we ought to start wearing them now. Time to start shaping the battlefield.

That should be our (and DALPA's) goal...not three years from signing, or in a couple of cherry-picked areas using the company's/DALPA's jointly formulated fuzzy math.

RA and management want to be an "industry leading airline" without conceding an "industry leading" contract. It's their job to try to get away with it. So it's up to us to say, "you want to be an industry leading airline. Then show us an industry-leading contract". It's up to us to convey that message to DALPA. And we've got to be prepared to use every (legal) resource at our disposal to make it happen.

Of course shiznit, sailingfun, slowplay, acl65, and a host of others will tell us that's impossible, and once again attempt to lower our expectations heading into the contract.

But I'm optimistic that we won't buy DALPA's expenditure-reducing and responsibility-shirking methods again this time; at least not 62% of us.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1585404)

C12 is Bill Buckner in Game 6