[QUOTEhttp://www.airlinepilotforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1599365=sailingfun;1599 365]Where exactly did you see that on FAR 117? I have read the rule and don't recall that. It does then require 10 hours free of duty prior to reporting for a FDP but nothing in 117 prohibits a mandatory schedule check. The FAR does not care about your days off. You are either working or at rest. The schedule check violates your rest hence the reason you can't now be given a trip prior to 12 noon on the first day of a reserve block.[/QUOTE]

From the FAA 177 Q and A document.

A4A asked whether a requirement in
the collective bargaining agreement to
check a schedule or calendar, or to
acknowledge a trip assignment, is
considered duty.
Section 117.3 defines duty as ‘‘any
task that a flightcrew member performs
as required by the certificate holder
* * *’’ Thus, if a certificate holder
requires that a flightcrew member check
a schedule or calendar, or acknowledge
a trip assignment, then the flightcrew
member’s compliance with that
requirement would be considered duty.
The collective bargaining agreement has
no impact on this analysis, as this
agreement simply provides the legal
basis for the certificate holder to require
a flightcrew member to perform certain
actions.


To me this means if i am required to check my schedule, I must be given a duty period. This would be a problem as a) if I check between 1500-2359 (off day), it would trigger a duty period...per the PWA I do not think I can be given a duty period on my day off (without premium pay) and b) if i check between 0000-0200 (on-call), I must be given 10 hours of rest, assuming I wait until 0159 to check it triggers an earliest start time of 1200.

A voluntary check is not illegal, it is just that the company can not require it. They have a couple options, put an early show on your schedule and hope you accept it (and possibly have to burn a SC pilot or had out a GS if you don't) or just assume a worst case scenario of a 0159 check and not hand out anything until 1200.

From the FAA 177 Q and A document.

A4A asked whether a requirement in
the collective bargaining agreement to
check a schedule or calendar, or to
acknowledge a trip assignment, is
considered duty.
Section 117.3 defines duty as ‘‘any
task that a flightcrew member performs
as required by the certificate holder
* * *’’ Thus, if a certificate holder
requires that a flightcrew member check
a schedule or calendar, or acknowledge
a trip assignment, then the flightcrew
member’s compliance with that
requirement would be considered duty.
The collective bargaining agreement has
no impact on this analysis, as this
agreement simply provides the legal
basis for the certificate holder to require
a flightcrew member to perform certain
actions.


To me this means if i am required to check my schedule, I must be given a duty period. This would be a problem as a) if I check between 1500-2359 (off day), it would trigger a duty period...per the PWA I do not think I can be given a duty period on my day off (without premium pay) and b) if i check between 0000-0200 (on-call), I must be given 10 hours of rest, assuming I wait until 0159 to check it triggers an earliest start time of 1200.[/QUOTE]

I think that per the PWA, we are still required to perform the check between 1500 and 0200 base time, and as the above interpretation states, we are required by our agreement to perform that action. But we never have been specifically compensated for that. For purposes of rest, it is considered duty to perform that check, and thusly I agree that the earliest they could schedule another duty period, ie: short call, would be 1200 base time if they are to abide by the 0200 limit. Acknowledging earlier would be voluntary, I suppose.

I agree that we are still required to check per the PWA, but it brings up a few issues. 1. A check between 1500-2359 must be voluntary as it is on your day off. A morning trip assigned between these times is a gamble for the schedulers. If you don't ack they have no recourse as you have not yet violated the PWA and they may be in a pickle trying to cover the trip last minute. 2. This leaves the only time you are absolutely required to check the period from 0000-0200. If that is considered a requirement from the company, are we required to have a (1 minute??) duty period posted on our schedule with all the baggage that comes with that? If not all checks between this time must also be considered voluntary; therefore making the whole schedule check section essentially void.

This means that the only way the company can assign a trip is to call after 0000. Of course this triggers the catch-22 that you are not required to ack until 3 hrs. prior, but must have the 10 hr rest period.

The only way scheduling could make this work and fully be in compliance without you "volunteering" for anything is to place a small duty period and associated rest on your schedule at the exact time you check between 0000 and 0159.

I think there are a lot of different ways to interpret all this stuff and it will take awhile to get it all sorted out.

NO DAL for Delta
 

Copied from the Virgin LUV thread.
DOJ says Delta not a candidate for 2 DAL gates.
Can't say I'm surprised by this decision from the most anti-airline DOJ in a long time (unless you're a favorite son).


Airline Biz Blog | Dallas Morning News

I'm sure having A320 service to major cities is preferable to RJ's ATL.

They are doing 10:00am short calls on your first day as well. How does that work? I guess if you check your schedule at 3pm and acknowledge it, it's no problem. But if you check your schedule at 2am, that isn't legal (is it?)

I wonder if they throw 10am on there, then whoever doesn't acknowledge they move to noon.

Thanks for all that clarification.

On a lighter note, who wants a new boat?

Phantom International | Flying Phantom by Phantom International

From the FAA 177 Q and A document.

A4A asked whether a requirement in
the collective bargaining agreement to
check a schedule or calendar, or to
acknowledge a trip assignment, is
considered duty.
Section 117.3 defines duty as ‘‘any
task that a flightcrew member performs
as required by the certificate holder
* * *’’ Thus, if a certificate holder
requires that a flightcrew member check
a schedule or calendar, or acknowledge
a trip assignment, then the flightcrew
member’s compliance with that
requirement would be considered duty.
The collective bargaining agreement has
no impact on this analysis, as this
agreement simply provides the legal
basis for the certificate holder to require
a flightcrew member to perform certain
actions.


To me this means if i am required to check my schedule, I must be given a duty period. This would be a problem as a) if I check between 1500-2359 (off day), it would trigger a duty period...per the PWA I do not think I can be given a duty period on my day off (without premium pay) and b) if i check between 0000-0200 (on-call), I must be given 10 hours of rest, assuming I wait until 0159 to check it triggers an earliest start time of 1200.

A voluntary check is not illegal, it is just that the company can not require it. They have a couple options, put an early show on your schedule and hope you accept it (and possibly have to burn a SC pilot or had out a GS if you don't) or just assume a worst case scenario of a 0159 check and not hand out anything until 1200.[/QUOTE]

Don't confuse FAR's with the contract. The two do not interrelate. The union has put out exactly what our obligations are under the contract and 117.

You are trying to tie 117 into the contract. The don't tie together in any way. Because 117 considers a schedule check duty has zero bearing on the contract unless that ckeck was during a 117 required rest period. It's not. We had much the same confusion when the Whitlow ruling came out regarding reserve rest.

Where are the AE results:)