Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1614424)

He is wanting to go ZRH-JFK, but needs to get up to Newport, or PVD, after JFK. I told him it would be easier to fly into ATL and then fly up to PVD, both on Delta mainline. Is there an easy way to get from NYC (LGA or JFK) up to Newport or PVD?

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1614450)

We've got a new NC.

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1614450)

Condescending? How about factual. How about learning from history rather than being driven by it?

Line up the union comm from C2012. Then compare the posts of FtB, PurpleDrunk, the Manager, Scambo etc. See what was more accurate. Also, compare the comm from the various councils during the time frame.

Then compare your W-2 from 12/12 to 12/13, realizing that 12/12 had 6 months of C2012 increases in the pay.

It won't look very much like the 4833 talking point. It won't look very much like the charts and graphs from amateur analysts throughout the ratification window.

Why is it important? Call it a historical accuracy check. While past performance isn't a guarantor of future results, these folks called into question the credibility of "official" comm that you were getting. They wanted to influence your vote. That vote directly effects your wallet.

Oh, and remember that none of the carriers that came after us were able to get even as much as we got. It's still not enough, but the negateers wanted you to say "no" with no plan or methodology to do better

So yes, I think the trip is important. We're coming up on contract negotiations in a year. We've got a new NC. We've got a significantly different MEC and administration. And the relationships with management, ownership, finance and other stakeholders that got us paid first and more relies on our credibility and ability to execute as a business partner.

If we want to lead the industry, we as pilots and our bargaining agent have to be relevant. Otherwise we'll be part of the labor pack and move in concert with them. We're coming to a crossroads.

So no, it's not about being condescending or creating personal conflict. It's about how we go forward.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1614433)

[unenthusiastic rescue divers doing two out of three on "rock/paper/scissors"]: "I'm not rescuing that."

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1614472)

I agree with the rest of your post, though.

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1614450)

So yes, I think the trip is important. We're coming up on contract negotiations in a year. We've got a new NC. We've got a significantly different MEC and administration. And the relationships with management, ownership, finance and other stakeholders that got us paid first and more relies on our credibility and ability to execute as a business partner.

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1614532)

I cringe when I hear you guys call yourselves a "business partner" with management.

I understand Moakism. I'm OK with constructive engagement and working together and cooperation rather than confrontation, etc. etc. but there has to be reciprocity. There has to be a balance.
I think management has been taking advantage of us in the last few "engagements".
They've become a bit too dominant in this little partnership.
I hope DALPA can pivot to a slightly more aggressive stance when it becomes necessary because right now I think management is too easily taking our lunch money every day. One of these days we are going to have to put up some resistance.

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1614532)

I cringe when I hear you guys call yourselves a "business partner" with management.

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1614532)

I understand Moakism. I'm OK with constructive engagement and working together and cooperation rather than confrontation, etc. etc. but there has to be reciprocity. There has to be a balance.
I think management has been taking advantage of us in the last few "engagements".
They've become a bit too dominant in this little partnership.
I hope DALPA can pivot to a slightly more aggressive stance when it becomes necessary because right now I think management is too easily taking our lunch money every day. One of these days we are going to have to put up some resistance.