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Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1617112)
It will be interesting to see what flight ops does about this. Anybody who acknowledged one of those calls electronically and then turns a wheel in less than 10 hours from that time is subject to getting their ticket pulled by the FAA.
How is Delta going to get around that? |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1617116)
It's possible the system was programmed to not call pilots within 10 hours of starting a FDP. If so they don't have a issue. If not however they have a big problem. Did anyone get a call with a report less then 10 hours?
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1617119)
I did....0600 report here.
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Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1617100)
It would seem so. If you have been receiving these calls and then ignore the 10 hour required rest you are in violation of the FARs.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1617079)
Since the company has in fact made multiple calls you are in fact illegal until you get 10 hours rest.
There is additional guidance about the one-call "rule" in deltanet, and it does say the company is allowed ONE call. Not sure what the basis is for this, but it's not in the FAR text from the ALPA website. I think we each determine must whether we ""got interrupted or not. The fact the calls went out doesn't mean they interrupted your rest. Your phone might have been off, silent, whatever. I'm not trying to encourage anyone to play this one way or another, but I don't think Check and sailing are correct when they say we are violating FAR's for "receiving" multiple calls if they didn't interrupt your sleep. And certainly, the fact the company made the calls doesn't mean showing up is a violation. Not everyone going out, some are coming home. If they didn't get interrupted, something which only they can determine, they're not automatically illegal, IMO. Still, I agree that IT has just taken a pretty hard shot at tomorrow's schedule. The reason I point this out is that it is important to note that the pilot determines whether the sleep opportunity has been interrupted or not. Getting just one phone call doesn't mean you haven't lost your uninterrupted sleep opportunity. The company doesn't get to determine that you slept like a baby, just because they only called once. Conversely, for the company making several doesn't seem to imply (in the FAR's) that you have for certain lost your sleep opportunity. It may violate some sort of memorandum between the company and the FAA, but you're not violating the FAR's if you didn't determine that your sleep opportunity was interrupted. For a ruling, let's go to Alan Shore. Alan? |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1617116)
It's possible the system was programmed to not call pilots within 10 hours of starting a FDP. If so they don't have a issue. If not however they have a big problem. Did anyone get a call with a report less then 10 hours?
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Sink-
Are you saying that a pilot can waive the 10 hour rule? If you just certify that some company notification did not disturb your rest then you can go ahead and report? I'm not sure that's correct. If that were true then why can't we stay with our contract and acknowledge reserve trips three hours prior to report? |
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1617077)
Delta has quite clearly lost control of their computer system.
I would imagine there's going to be a whole lot of delayed flights tomorrow morning. The FARs are pretty clear about required rest http://www.dailyencouragement.net/im...ish_nascar.jpg |
Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1617122)
and
That might be overstating it a bit. FAR 117.25 (e) and (f) say you must be given 10 hours rest and 8-hours uninterrupted sleep opportunity, and the pilot must determine if the 8-hours have not been provided. There is additional guidance about the one-call "rule" in deltanet, and it does say the company is allowed ONE call. Not sure what the basis is for this, but it's not in the FAR text from the ALPA website. I think we each determine must whether we ""got interrupted or not. The fact the calls went out doesn't mean they interrupted your rest. Your phone might have been off, silent, whatever. I'm not trying to encourage anyone to play this one way or another, but I don't think Check and sailing are correct when they say we are violating FAR's for "receiving" multiple calls if they didn't interrupt your sleep. And certainly, the fact the company made the calls doesn't mean showing up is a violation. Not everyone going out, some are coming home. If they didn't get interrupted, something which only they can determine, they're not automatically illegal, IMO. Still, I agree that IT has just taken a pretty hard shot at tomorrow's schedule. The reason I point this out is that it is important to note that the pilot determines whether the sleep opportunity has been interrupted or not. Getting just one phone call doesn't mean you haven't lost your uninterrupted sleep opportunity. The company doesn't get to determine that you slept like a baby, just because they only called once. Conversely, for the company making several doesn't seem to imply (in the FAR's) that you have for certain lost your sleep opportunity. It may violate some sort of memorandum between the company and the FAA, but you're not violating the FAR's if you didn't determine that your sleep opportunity was interrupted. For a ruling, let's go to Alan Shore. Alan? The FAA has a “one phone call” policy that “generally” allows a certificate holder to initiate one phone call during a crewmember’s rest period. If the crewmember voluntarily chooses to answer the phone call, the FAA does not view the phone call as disruptive and breaking the rest period. However, a flightcrew member may have difficulty getting back to sleep after being woken up by a certificate holder’s phone call. In that situation, a flightcrew member may have his/her sleep opportunity interrupted. Thus, a certificate holder runs the risk of interrupting a flightcrew member’s sleep opportunity during the rest period by making a phone call. |
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1617128)
Sink-
Are you saying that a pilot can waive the 10 hour rule? If you just certify that some company notification did not disturb your rest then you can go ahead and report? I'm not sure that's correct. If that were true then why can't we stay with our contract and acknowledge reserve trips three hours prior to report? No one but you knows whether your opportunity was interrupted, and it's no based on the number of calls. Construction at the hotel might interrupt it, and you might sleep through a phone call, or turn it off and miss the subsequent interruptions. The reason I'm pointing this out, is that you shouldn't link the number of calls with an automatic interruption. In some cases, one is too many. I don't want people to think that the company is allowed to wake them up just once, but two calls is illegal. The regulations don't state that. I don't know where the one-call "rule" comes from. It's on the 117 FAQ's on deltanet, but so is the nonsense about reserves having to acknowledge earlier than the contract. |
10 phone calls from SKDS. 5 on the cell, 5 on the house phone. However, I am off tomorrow. If I were scheduled for a less than legal rest, I don't see how I could defend the position of "Sure, I got my 8 hours of un-interrupted FAR required rest". It'll be interesting to see how many guys abide by the FARs, and how many go out on a limb to an indefensible position for the good of the company.
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