Good luck with that.... ;)

Still you are unable to refute the undeniable fact that the C2K followed on the heels of the injunction at DAL.

Plus, an illegal sickout is COMPLETELY different than simply following the contract. But you knew that already.

An injunction at DAL would not have been a sure thing, nor would it necessarily have been catastrophic to us. The reality is that this is purely a hypothetical discussion since DALPA has neither the initiative nor the will to fight.

You MAY be right--or you may not know the entire story. You are assuming that everyone already has a full month, THEN they are putting in WS. I know guys that will drop their schedule to very low (even zero) then put in a GS first thing. Once they have secured their GS, now they need to get the rest of their flying up to the trigger in order for their GS to pay double.

In fact in our pre-PBS line of time bidding days, I flew with a very senior captain who did just that. This was also from the time where a pilot got two GS in seniority order before a junior pilot even got one (I am glad we changed that, by the way).

He would use a tool called an "empty moveup" (pre-PBS) to start out his month with a value of zero. He would then get his two GS, then do nothing but WS easy turnarounds or two day trips. He did this for years.

So perhaps some of these guys white slipping that you are observing are doing something similar.

You could be correct.

Still won't keep me from posting Gilbert Gottfred melting down at his icrew ... because I just like the idea of Gilbert Gottfred screaming at icrew.

In fact, wonder if I could hire Mr. Gottfried to talk to Lisa in crew tracking for me.

As the story goes, "Why do divorces cost so much?"

"Because they are worth it."

Although I ran the numbers years ago and decided cheaper to keep her. Glad I did. Now if she doesn't run the numbers on me. :eek:

…..and what actually happened.

July 19, 2003

American waives rest of fine
Pilots union's had still owed $26 million from penalty for 1999 sickout
07/19/2003
By ERIC TORBENSON / The Dallas Morning News

American Airlines Inc. said Friday it has forgiven $26 million of the $45.5 million fine levied against the Allied Pilots Association after its members conducted a 1999 sickout.

The amount represents what the APA still owed the carrier. A federal judge imposed the fine as punishment for the sickout.

The airline waived the $26 million during concessions talks this spring that saved the airline from bankruptcy. But the move wasn't made public until Friday, when American's parent company, AMR Corp., filed its quarterly Securities and Exchange Commission report.

The APA – which agreed to $660 million in annual pay and benefits cuts in April – told its 12,000 members about the fine in the spring. American spokesman Todd Burke acknowledged the move Friday but wouldn't comment further.

The pilots launched the sickout to protest American's handling of the December 1998 acquisition of Reno Air. They were upset about how the airline integrated Reno pilots into the American seniority list.

The 12-day sickout cost the carrier $200 million to $225 million.

American sued the pilots union, alleging it had violated the Railway Labor Act, which also applies to the aviation industry. Under the law, neither management nor unions are allowed to take "job actions" outside of contract talks – and only then if the parties are released from negotiations.

U.S. District Court Judge Joe Kendall of Dallas found the union and its officers in contempt because the pilots didn't comply with a back-to- work order and assessed the $45.5 million fine. Many labor experts said at the time that the amount was excessive.

AMR also disclosed in its quarterly SEC filing Friday that its pension obligations would increase sharply next year. The Fort Worth-based company said it paid $186 million to its pension funds this year but that the amount would rise to $600 million in 2004.

"However, based on the current regulatory environment and market conditions, the company expects its 2005 minimum required pension contributions to significantly exceed its 2004 minimum required pension contributions," the company said in the filing.

Also, AMR said it had renegotiated lender agreements on some of its Fokker 100 airplanes that are being retired from its fleet this year. The company expects to recognize a "significant gain" as a result of the new deal on the Fokkers by transferring ownership of 33 of the planes in the current quarter.

A company spokesman couldn't comment on how much AMR would gain. Of the 74 Fokker 100s in AMR's fleet, 45 have been taken out of service and the balance will be out by next year.

AMR shares dropped 17 cents to $10.59 in trading Friday. E-mail [email protected]

So are you bidding reserve and acknowledging 3 hours out?

Thanks for posting that.

It has been a while. Wasn't there something about the Court ordering the pilots back to work and the APA actually holding the Judge's Order to a vote? When the APA voted against the Judge's Order he hammered them (in effect showing his was in fact, larger than their's).

While it was certainly fun watching the APA tell the Judge to shove the RLA up his neither regions, public defiance of authority never seems to work out as well as it does in the movies.

Correct me. Is my memory accurate on this?

There were no meaningful gains financially from the table positions before the no overtime effort and the contract being signed. In fact it diverted assets and slowed negotiations. I 100 percent supported the no overtime campaign. A position in retrospect that was really stupid and has cost us over and over again as a union. I was younger and more rash with less experience. We all make mistakes.

We also had a 98% strike vote.....good luck getting that now...