[QUOTE=sailingfun;1646309]Funny, I have received several calls from my pilot friends who can not believe there are concessions in the TA. Interesting the difference of opinion.

Herk, I think part of the heartburn is coming because our MEC has said when we have leverage we will use it to IMPROVE things. It seems, as a whole, this agreement is another checkmate for management. Btw, every single small item that "doesnt seem to have any good use" or things management will "probably" and "likely" not be using, WILL be used. Let's not be naive or foolish thinking it's just words and not in there for a reason.

Anything that has negative safety repercussions should be a no go. Anything that reduces staffing should be a no go. We've stagnated from the fallout of 911, SARS, sunken economy, "synergy" and parked planes from a merger", age 65, to C2012's increased productivity. Please stop! The company can afford to throw some more bones in work rules and compensation now. Let's work toward that end. In the mean time status quo helps us more than hurts us (especially given the FAA's 4 recent clarifications which were published yesterday, weighing in our favor). Siphon off the last remaining leverage we may have and watch management ignore us when C2015 rolls around.

On a side note, I think one has to really consider where the company is going regarding notification. Don't be surprised if in C2015 they have it all tied into the tablets that are coming. I believe their ultimate goal will be for us to tote that tablet around and shorten the leash even further. Let's keep a sharp eye out when the language is produced on this TA to see if there is more small print aimed in taking us that direction.

That's exactly how I felt when NWA did them. We might want to keep that quiet though. It might wind up in our next agreement. ;)

I am still confused. If they fly them as turns they need more pilots not fewer. In addition if they pull the long legs out for turns it increases credit on the longer trips. I learned that when we tried to build better trips then the company in SLC.
3 pilots flying a leg is more then two pilots flying a leg. Pilot jobs come down to block hours.

New,

I think the 1000 report on the first day is a little more complicated than that. If I remember correctly the no earlier than noon policy (not contractual) was part of a package deal (SD Memo) that also required a 2 hour long call acknowledgment.

Now if we eliminated the 2 hour long call acknowledgment but still have a later contractual show time on day 1 is that really losing ground?

We can't expect to eliminate the bad part of the SD memo (2 hour response) and keep the good (no later than noon report). We can try to get that and we should, but I think we need to look at this deal as a whole before making any decisions.

Scoop

That's very possible.

But, at what point did we slide past our original stance of a 3 hour acknowledgment to go to not having to acknowledgement at all? Maybe that's the point where we could have kept the 3 hour acknowledgment and kept the 12 noon report for reserves? Or, maybe no CDO's?

I know I wasn't in the negotiations, but there would have been some merit for ALPA in having one less concession to have to defend.

Absolutely, Scoop.

Like most people, I'm withholding judgment until I can see the contractual language of the deal.

I was just trying to let PG know why gloomy (??) thought it was a travesty. A 10am earliest report time is worse than the 12 noon earliest report time reserves have been getting since 117 came into being. It's not the whole deal though. :)

How much sleep do you think you will get with 6 hours "behind the door?" Maybe 5?

BTW, I agree with you but I'll go one step further.... in a 24 hour period, less than 6 hours sleep on the backside/early part of the clock is UNSAFE. Sleep science says 8 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period is recommended. Still see bidding these if the guarantee is 6 hours from block in to report back at the airport? What about 6 hours "behind the door?" You're going to get considerably less than 6 hours sleep either way.

No, I didn't get to re-edit my post before gogo cut me off. What the Lieutenant was trying to say was that the company knows that there will be guys clamoring for these and will ho themselves out to do them. Is that a bad thing? Maybe, maybe not. But I think the company is counting on a certain number of guys wanting to fly these because they are productive, and then flying more, easier trips. Even I said that I would consider one at the end of a 3 or 4 day if the protections against fatigue are not solely dependent on me to make the call, and risk being put in an uncomfortable position to do so. I don't remember whose post it was above that was talking about how guys will be tired, but won't make the fatigue call because they are either afraid of being called on the carpet, or are just hackers.... It shouldn't be a factor at all in the equation. After all, wasn't 117 about rest and fatigue? Why are we being asked to do an end around to that law to fix marketing's problem?

Prove it...... Names and dates required, or it is just more of your usual paranoid crapola.