Originally Posted by EdGrimley (Post 1646304)

Tsquare, from what I have read I understand you are a check airman at Delta? If yes, you are one of the guys teaching and instilling the principle of safety above all else to those you train. I may not agree with you on everything you write but I do thank you for the position you seem to be taking with regard to CDO's and how they relate to safety.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1646105)

We'll need to see more details to find out whether a CDO can be mixed in with other flying in a rotation. At my former job, they were always stand-alone rotations.

Originally Posted by DelDah Capt (Post 1646283)

Would you put your family on tonight's 7p JFK to Moscow flight? Because the pilots on that flight are going to fly into the night and and try to land with the rising sun, but unlike the CDO crew, they won't get a 6 hour break at a hotel with a chance to shower. Further, since I'm NYC based, I know darn well that the majority of the NY pilots are commuters and they probably flew in that day.

What I've heard from you and others is that "well, we already do international flights and red eyes and there's a marketing need for them....but we shouldn't add more 'unsafe flying' "

Well, I'm sorry, if you believe flying during the WOCL is unsafe in Split duty Ops, then it's unsafe during International/Red eyes. I'm asking you to be consistent...if disturbed sleep flying is unsafe as a CDO, then it's unsafe as a Transpac as well. It doesn't suddenly become safe because we've always done it. Again, be consistent....if you really believe flying in the wee hours of the morning to be unsafe, then it's unsafe for all those types of operations and I will assume that if Delta announces some new Transatlantic destinations next week, you will demand that they be flown by our JV partners because they are unsafe

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1646309)

I am amazed we are even having this conversation. I have received 3 emails from friends already laughing their asses off about the responses.

Originally Posted by EdGrimley (Post 1646304)

Tsquare, from what I have read I understand you are a check airman at Delta? If yes, you are one of the guys teaching and instilling the principle of safety above all else to those you train. I may not agree with you on everything you write but I do thank you for the position you seem to be taking with regard to CDO's and how they relate to safety.

Originally Posted by PilotFrog (Post 1646320)

To me this seems to be headed to a "we have to approve it to see what's in it" type of TA.

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1646321)

sailing-
You asked why in the world the company would ever do that?
Here's a possible scenario for domestic augmentation:

A route that is not flown daily. Maybe only weekly.

Where there are no pilots laying over to bring the plane back.
Instead of having the jet sit for 12 hours while the pilots sleep, they augment the crew and fly a turn.

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1646308)

I already voted. Didn't you?

My rep likely favors MEMRAT as a general philosophy; he has openly mentioned in LEC meetings. I hope they look at whether the deal is good first, and once that conversation and debate has concluded make their determination if it is beneficial for the pilot group.

if that answer is "Yes", then I hope they do the same due diligence with a completely open mind on the advantages/ disadvantages of MEMRAT, and then vote accordingly.

They are separate votes with separate deliberations.

MY MEC SPEAKS FOR ME.

The bigger question in my mind as we head into this next section six is whether the minority (if there is one, I'd love a unanimous vote as a show of unity from the leadership) will throw the majority under the bus or if they will support the majority as another way of displaying unity.

I'm tired of 10-9 votes and "it's not my fault" council comms that often come afterward.