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Originally Posted by Flamer
(Post 1645939)
We go to a assumed acknowledged system. Scheduling changes lineholder/reserve schedules all the time before/during/after trips. They have also been known to alter block times and change schedules without letting you know. CNO is a complete disaster. In all/any of these cases, who is going to get blamed when you are unaware of a change/addition? You think we have seen an increase of PDs so far?
Getting acknowledgement is the only thing that keeps scheduling remotely honest now. And, forget the spin. It is really a 3 hour leash for LC now to meet the real intent of the FARs. If we go to this, all pilots will be checking their scheds a lot more than they are now. That is not cool. There would be nothing to stop skeds from changing something and then blaming us for not checking often enough. The current CNO system is completely unreliable. |
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1645899)
Are you on FPL or are you spinning pro bono?
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Originally Posted by flyallnite
(Post 1645957)
More money, more time off. Isn't that what we all have asked for?
When you were hired at Delta, was there a space on the application that said "Bankers Hours Only"? Is getting paid more for a day of your time an improvement? I flew CDO's a long time ago a a regional. They sucked. But what sucked the most was the penalty lap we had to do when we got back to the hub. The CDO itself wasn't nearly as bad as flying 2 man back from HNL, or a 5 leg MD88 trip with an 8 hour layover and a 13 hour duty day with a 5 AM east coast pick up. Or the 727 all nighters I did on reserve, west coast to Reno, then on to the east coast. Made for a long, long night. People complain about a lot of things in this job, but if you don't think slamming your body through time zones is part of the gig, then you're deluding yourself. I would wager a jelly donut that nobody who doesn't want to fly a CDO will have to. The people who do, will do so legally, because the FAR's permit it. If they are fatigued, then they are obliged not to sign the release. It's really that simple. 6 hours at a hotel? That's more sleep than I usually get on most of our early get up layovers anyhow. And only 2 legs, each less than 2 hours... and more likely much less, like 45 minutes? That sounds like a cake walk to me. Make it pay well and I'm all for it. Airport ready reserve? Yes please. Shuttle standby was an incredible gig that paid very, very well. Are you a commuter? Then don't bid reserve. When has commuting to reserve ever been a good idea, at any airline? Too junior to hold a line? Then downbid, or wait a few months until you can, the movement is there now. Don't bid up then complain about your "juniority problem" that you created for yourself. Still waiting for the details, but more money, more time off sounds pretty good to me... I'll wait to see what comes out of the meeting (I understand it's open?) to see how much of this is answered. The problem that I see is we are debating a 2 page letter with almost no detail, so of course we are trying to fill in the blanks with glasses half full or glasses half empty. I'll wait a few more days and keep my powder dry. But, what in the world are they talking about with the crew rest thing on the A330-300s? New pod down where the FAs are.......better not be putting me down with the FAs in the current pod (-300) or I'll never eat another crew meal:eek: Ferd |
Originally Posted by flyallnite
(Post 1645957)
More money, more time off. Isn't that what we all have asked for?
When you were hired at Delta, was there a space on the application that said "Bankers Hours Only"? Is getting paid more for a day of your time an improvement? I flew CDO's a long time ago a a regional. They sucked. But what sucked the most was the penalty lap we had to do when we got back to the hub. The CDO itself wasn't nearly as bad as flying 2 man back from HNL, or a 5 leg MD88 trip with an 8 hour layover and a 13 hour duty day with a 5 AM east coast pick up. Or the 727 all nighters I did on reserve, west coast to Reno, then on to the east coast. Made for a long, long night. People complain about a lot of things in this job, but if you don't think slamming your body through time zones is part of the gig, then you're deluding yourself. I would wager a jelly donut that nobody who doesn't want to fly a CDO will have to. The people who do, will do so legally, because the FAR's permit it. If they are fatigued, then they are obliged not to sign the release. It's really that simple. 6 hours at a hotel? That's more sleep than I usually get on most of our early get up layovers anyhow. And only 2 legs, each less than 2 hours... and more likely much less, like 45 minutes? That sounds like a cake walk to me. Make it pay well and I'm all for it. Airport ready reserve? Yes please. Shuttle standby was an incredible gig that paid very, very well. Are you a commuter? Then don't bid reserve. When has commuting to reserve ever been a good idea, at any airline? Too junior to hold a line? Then downbid, or wait a few months until you can, the movement is there now. Don't bid up then complain about your "juniority problem" that you created for yourself. Still waiting for the details, but more money, more time off sounds pretty good to me... There is no operational necessity for CDO's. It is simply a tool of convenience for the company to circumnavigate the 10 hour minimum rest and reduce costs/complexity/whatever other benefit they see. The schedule can be adequately flown without them, just as it is right now, and has been for some years. And I am definitely getting the impression here that it is about the money.... Regarding all your other examples: so because we do other types of fatigue-prone flying, that makes it ok to add yet another fatigue-prone operation thru CDO's? I would wager a jelly donut that nobody who doesn't want to fly a CDO will have to If they are fatigued, then they are obliged not to sign the release. It's really that simple. And I'm not sure if your last bit was directed at me but I most certainly have not bid up and I don't commute. I have created no "juniority problem" for myself whatsoever. |
Originally Posted by APCLurker
(Post 1645931)
Killing yourself the day after a 30 hour layover??
How can you not be rested after a 30 hour layover? Personally, I'd rather do a CDO with one leg home. |
Originally Posted by Ferd149
(Post 1645985)
Are you on flight pay loss from DPA or spinning pro bono? :D
Ready, fire, aim. |
What did COD stand for? Will we come up with a new name/acronym?
I did a few on the DC-9 years ago when on reserve and hated them. But, I was always amazed how senior everyone but me was on the %$&n things. But, I think I do them all the time now.........I takeoff, fly for 3 to 4 hours, go to a bunk and sleep for 2ish hours and go back up to fly for 3 to 4 hours.:D (followed by a long bus ride to a nap, dinner, and back to bed) Like several guys have pointed out, one man's trash.......... |
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1646003)
Ready, fire, aim. I thought is was a funny observation to life on APC, but then I alway crack myself up:o Chill out, Your Uncle Ferd |
Originally Posted by JungleBus
(Post 1645956)
Pretty sure those would continue, no way they can be flown as a CDO. 30 hrs in GSO, would probably revert to a CDO. I could see there end up being a ton of CDOs on smaller stations out of ATL. Lots of places networking likes to put an 88 first flight out and last flight in, and DCI middle of the day. I really did think I'd left CDOs behind at the regionals. It's one of those super-sketchy practices they hope the public never finds out about. At my last airline, most CDO lineholders would end up dropping them into open time to pick up a normal trip, and some poor reserve would end up doing the CDO.
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Originally Posted by Ferd149
(Post 1646004)
Like several guys have pointed out, one man's trash... http://media1.onsugar.com/files/2014...ia-Steinem.jpg personally the flying doesnt bother me when its one leg home after a nap. The old 8 hour overnights on the 88 were unsafe imho because you bracketed the min rest overnight with a five leg day on front or backside and two or three legs on the other. One leg home and done is fine by me. WHAT I DO NOT LIKE is the potential this requires fewer pilots in categories like mine. If it requires fewer crews on any category then what in the freaking hell are they doing? |
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