Originally Posted by boog123 (Post 1645632)

Lie-Flat Business Class Seats Coming to Delta Transcontinental Flights | The Points Guy

ERRRR, try again

Originally Posted by groundstop (Post 1645631)

The 5:15 is nice, but if they get CDO's the 30 hour layovers will go down a lot... so the 5:15 vs 4:30 currently won't really come in to play.

Originally Posted by groundstop (Post 1645631)

The equal pay for reserves is nice and long over due. It matters on green slips.

Originally Posted by groundstop (Post 1645631)

Pretty disappointing they only got a 13 hour long call leash I was thinking more like 14-15. Guys that commute to reserve will still have a small window where it will be tough. With 14-15 hours commuters stuck on reserve had a little less stress.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1645633)

Where was I wrong? The 757ERs are the only 757s getting outfitted (ex-twa). They already qualify anyways without modification as they have the biz-elite seat.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1645349)

Do you think UPS/FedEx pilots are sleeping 8 hours during the days then flying all night? What about the Delta guys who fly ANC-ATL? It is all their jobs to show up rested. If we think they don't, then we need to petition the FAA to prohibit all back-side-of-the-clock flying, right?

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1645349)

How can something that's an FAR be itself a way to get around the FAR? :confused:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1645633)

Where was I wrong? The 757ERs are the only 757s getting outfitted (ex-twa). They already qualify anyways without modification as they have the biz-elite seat.

Originally Posted by boog123 (Post 1645636)

Theres a reason that this is in the TA…….to use it.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1645641)

Unless it reclines at least 40 degrees and has a footrest, the BE seat wouldn't even qualify as a Class 3 rest facility. That would mean no point in augmenting. Or are we talking lie-flat seats?

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1645638)

That's their job. That's what they signed up for. You fly for UPS/FedEx and you're going to be doing a lot of back side of the clock flying, at least while you're junior. Some people can do that and make it work. Others can't. I never applied to those companies for that exact reason. I know it wouldn't work for me. That's why I stayed on the 88 as an F/O when I could have held the 757/767 or 738. I'd rather have a root canal than do a redeye or CDO. But that's just me. I fully realize that some folks can handle this... IF they get the necessary sleep during the day.

Here's the problem with CDO's. (And, yes, I DO think they should be prohibited by FAR.) The whole reason why guys bid those is so they can be home all day, every day... get things done, spend time with the family, make more money, etc. The reality of it is the only sleep they are going to get is whatever sleep they get at the hotel in between flights. The FAA has identified 8 hours as being the amount of sleep needed for most people to be well rested. That's consistent with the widely accepted sleep science and it's the whole reason they put it in the FAR as part of the 10 hour minimum layover. CDO's will NOT provide anywhere near that amount of sleep for anyone. Therefore, I believe... no matter how much you try to rationalize it because you want to fly less and be home more, make more money, whatever... the reality is that you WILL be fatigued for that morning flight home after getting just a few short hours of sleep. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. I wouldn't put my family on a flight with pilots that are flying the morning flight on the tail end of a CDO. When I was commuting, I've passed on RJ flights and taken a later flight for that exact reason.



Do I really have to spell that out for you? Okay... I should have said it's a way to get around the INTENT of the FAR, not the actual FAR. I thought that was pretty obvious but hopefully you understand what I am saying now. CDO's are a way for airlines to get around the intent of the FAR mandated rest requirements. A loophole that has been exploited and IMO needed to be CLOSED years ago.

Again, I don't care whether it's technically "legal" or not. I cannot and will not sign a release for that morning flight after only getting a few hours (way less than 8) of sleep. I can't believe we are even discussing this at Delta Air Lines! :mad:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1645638)

That's their job. That's what they signed up for. You fly for UPS/FedEx and you're going to be doing a lot of back side of the clock flying, at least while you're junior. Some people can do that and make it work. Others can't. I never applied to those companies for that exact reason. I know it wouldn't work for me. That's why I stayed on the 88 as an F/O when I could have held the 757/767 or 738. I'd rather have a root canal than do a redeye or CDO. But that's just me. I fully realize that some folks can handle this... IF they get the necessary sleep during the day.

Here's the problem with CDO's. (And, yes, I DO think they should be prohibited by FAR.) The whole reason why guys bid those is so they can be home all day, every day... get things done, spend time with the family, make more money, etc. The reality of it is the only sleep they are going to get is whatever sleep they get at the hotel in between flights. The FAA has identified 8 hours as being the amount of sleep needed for most people to be well rested. That's consistent with the widely accepted sleep science and it's the whole reason they put it in the FAR as part of the 10 hour minimum layover. CDO's will NOT provide anywhere near that amount of sleep for anyone. Therefore, I believe... no matter how much you try to rationalize it because you want to fly less and be home more, make more money, whatever... the reality is that you WILL be fatigued for that morning flight home after getting just a few short hours of sleep. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. I wouldn't put my family on a flight with pilots that are flying the morning flight on the tail end of a CDO. When I was commuting, I've passed on RJ flights and taken a later flight for that exact reason.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1645638)

Do I really have to spell that out for you? Okay... I should have said it's a way to get around the INTENT of the FAR, not the actual FAR. I thought that was pretty obvious but hopefully you understand what I am saying now. CDO's are a way for airlines to get around the intent of the FAR mandated rest requirements. A loophole that has been exploited and IMO needed to be CLOSED years ago.