With the amount of credit built into a CDO, I don't see how it can result in less credit overall. Given the addition of ADG, I have to think that we're talking more pilots needed, not less.

Former NWA CEO Steven Rothermeier passed away this weekend. Lost control of the airline to Al & Gary in 1989. Came from the Don Nyrop school of NWA management but would've been interesting to see what NWA would've become without the ridiculous leveraged buyout by Wings. I know a lot of guys who dislike anything NWA CEO but still it's a sad day for the airline with the red tail

It's going to take a while to properly digest this, once we have the facts (and we MUST get the facts before a vote takes place), but in any analysis we need to look at the most horrid "frankenstein" trip. Also: don't look at augmented and CDO as separate issue. Don't assume CDO's go back to where they started. Don't assume they represent the start and end of a rotation. And don't think about rotations in the traditional way.

Imagine a NYC rotation where leg 1 is augmenting 2 LA guys going home on a turn, short layover, CDO, end up on the East Coast, then fly with 1 pilot West, and finish a "turn" home augmented with a LA guy on the first leg of his rotation (last leg of yours).

Did I just accidentally think of a way to negate Alan and Sailing's math, or am I way off? Do you have to be augmented on the entire time if going > 9 hours, or just the time above 9 hours?

Not having been in the room while this was being negotiated, I do not what leverage we might have had to exert on the Company to obtain these gains. Sorry, but I'm clueless on this one.

You're correct.

The COD is a distinct trip. They can not be inserted mid rotation. (question already asked & answered)

We need to verify what happens during a delay on a COD overnight. Summer storms, short legs resulting in flow delays in and out of hubs and other common sources of IROP effecting these type of operations have to be considered.

Also, these are the last flights in, first flights out, which typically have the highest percentages of weather related issues and diverts.

Fortunately we do have a number of Reps who have experience with these at other airlines. Their experiences help craft a better product.

What if the CDO is in the middle of a longer rotation?

Do I understand your post, Bar, as saying it cannot be? Where do you get that from?

I agree and what I was saying earlier that we're speculating on a less than 2 page letter from the union. We need vastly more detail to make an informed opinion and why I will wait. I'll admit, I did get sucked in to the long call what ifs since I try to sit long call from a 3 hour commute (plus airport drive, etc) from time to time.

I understand the MEC meeting will be open? Has anyone heard for sure?

Put me down as a +1 for MEMRAT on this............

Waiting sorta patiently,
Ferd

We'll need to see more details to find out whether a CDO can be mixed in with other flying in a rotation. At my former job, they were always stand-alone rotations.

We're on the same page, Ferd.

Another question for you APC'ers: never mind whether you like CDO's or not (I don't)... Is there anyone who doesn't think they alone are sufficiently important a change in working conditions, so as not to automatically warrant MEMRAT?

I think it's a given that we must be allowed to decide.

Unless we've retained the clause making us free from duty 12 (or 13) hours before report or start of short call.