Which cons? Some of them like adopting the FDP tables don't go into effect until November when the ADG is implemented.

Interestingly I did a long day yesterday that is legal under our current rules but won't be when we adopt the FDP tables. There is plenty of give/take in the max duty tables. I would have liked to see some of that tightened up. The LOA is pretty well outlined in the negotiator notepad. Some things that you might consider a con are a positive to others, and vice versa.

05-25-2014 | 12:27 PM

#158612

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The company was not going to introduce a item into the summer schedule that required both a staffing change and a bunch of IT changes. The original agreement I am told was to have a look back each month making each pilot whole via pay no credit for the 5:15 to go into effect 1 JUN. That went away when we asked the company to drop the CDO's as well as the 13th hour of long call.

IF that's true, it's a stunning display of incompetence by our side. Stunning. Lack of communication led to the pilots revolting, leading to our side begging management to save them, leading to management feeling they had the hammer to take back what they previously agreed to. Did we really just throw away the differential of 5:15 ADG between June 1 and November?

If true, words absolutely fail me.

Carl

05-25-2014 | 12:44 PM

#158613

80ktsClamp

Da Hudge

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 17,473

Likes: 0

From: Poodle Whisperer

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaflyer

Here's what the PWA currently says:

and here is what I think replaced the "Exception" language:

That didn't answer the question. People are saying you can no longer be released 2 hours prior to the end of the period...

05-25-2014 | 01:00 PM

#158614

80ktsClamp

Da Hudge

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 17,473

Likes: 0

From: Poodle Whisperer

There is no current codification of the early release from SC in the current PWA that I can find. Therefore, the LOA does not change early release.

05-25-2014 | 01:06 PM

#158615

Pineapple Guy

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 1,462

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

An equally viable argument is that ALPA had previously extracted every dollar of value that was available, and once the CDO portion was eliminated, the total package no longer made sense to management. I.E. the cost of an agreement without CDO flexibility exceeded the cost of no agreement.

So, the only way to get a deal that still brought value was to tweak the ADG implementation.

And while I have no idea whether that is true, you also have no facts supporting your opinion.

And welcome back, btw. We've all missed you.

05-25-2014 | 01:19 PM

#158616

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

An equally viable argument is that ALPA had previously extracted every dollar of value that was available, and once the CDO portion was eliminated, the total package no longer made sense to management. I.E. the cost of an agreement without CDO flexibility exceeded the cost of no agreement.

So, the only way to get a deal that still brought value was to tweak the ADG implementation.

And while I have no idea whether that is true, you also have no facts supporting your opinion.

And welcome back, btw. We've all missed you.

Which is why I wrote what I wrote...and I'll bold the parts I think you missed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

IF that's true, it's a stunning display of incompetence by our side. Stunning. Lack of communication led to the pilots revolting, leading to our side begging management to save them, leading to management feeling they had the hammer to take back what they previously agreed to. Did we really just throw away the differential of 5:15 ADG between June 1 and November?

If true, words absolutely fail me.

Don't know how I could have stated any more strongly that it was my opinions if true.

Thanks for the welcome PG. it's so nice to be missed.

Carl

05-25-2014 | 01:35 PM

#158617

Purple Drank

Straight QOL, homie

Joined: Feb 2012

Posts: 4,202

Likes: 1

From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The original agreement I am told was to have a look back each month making each pilot whole via pay no credit for the 5:15 to go into effect 1 JUN. That went away when we asked the company to drop the CDO's as well as the 13th hour of long call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

That is a bombshell. Need to repost after the long holiday--deserves a full discussion.