This is interesting. You touched on a couple of different metrics here and I was just curious if you could clarify it for me, because I think the point is not a small one and actually go to the heart of many disagreements we have here on this forum. You said that what we make right now is sufficient for your needs, and I think that's great. It is a responsible (and ultimately lucrative) thing to live within one's means. But then you said that the average of the Delta pilot's opinions would determine worth. Worth and needs are two very different things, and I don't see how you can equate the 2 in a survey or poll. I live quite well on what I make right now, but I believe like many that we are worth more. So the way I define worth, with the variable of need removed from the equation will probably be different than a pilot that has 6 kids and 3 ex-wives. He will always have that bias in the back of his mind, which will affect the survey. So how would a poll/survey account for that difference? And then, I really think for it to be a true "worth" evaluation, you would have to take into account the rest of the industry. (I am standing by for the blowback from the usual crowd on that) But the point is that could we honestly say that we are "worth" more than UAL or AAL or SWA pilots? How would you then quantify that statement?

 

This is dead on.........

I always get a kick outta engineers trying to talk business or in this case "wage and salary administration". I normally get shouted down or just ignored, but here I go again.

Let's pretend we, like most professionals, don't have a union. Let's pretend for a moment we're _________ fill in the blank. How are you paid? Your HR department will FIRST, look around and determine what others that you do make and compete with that number.

Now, I'll agree we're worth more than what we're making. But until our peer group breaks out too (i.e. don't count on United) we have one hand tied behind our backs. Now, if T would only throw for more TDs a year and Sailing would get off his butt and rush for yards per game we could get paid like pro athletes. Oh, and don't mention 80 not getting paid like the rockstar he is

Ferd

 

I'll respectfully disagree.

I think the average of the Delta pilots' opinions would be a very good indicator of what we think we are worth. And just as the market determines stock price, so too, the market determines what we are actually worth.

Respectfully submitted too.

 

Anyone ever seen this?

"*** LEG CANCELLED "

It's showing on a rotation later in June, but doesn't appear to apply to any particular leg. I checked Travelnet and Delta.com and the legs around it on the rotation all appear to still be operating.

 

It will come back. Probably a minor time change.

 

Good deal. Thanks.

 

Wow, I post a transcript of the company talking about how well they are doing (historically well) along with a member of the management team selling some of his stock for 6 million and a bunch of guys show up here stating we have no leverage, take what is offered then cite lots of reasons we shouldn't expect much.

I'm baffled by the white flag waiving. Management reads these boards. He11 management apparently posts on this board. Even if you think we have no leverage why post that to let management see we have already accepted we should get cost neutral or a net loss in everything we do with them?

I tend to side with the guys who say the starting point is to state our goals clearly and get all the troops behind it. No matter the obstacles unless you engage the whole group by bringing them into the process you lesson your ability to get anything done. Maybe that is part of the apathy we are seeing. Most know the union leadership are not willing to make the necessary changes to really rally the troops and therefore we should expect very little.

History is full of insurmountable obstacles that were overcome. Those who overcame were willing to stand up and put all resources into action. To create a strategy, write down goals, rally those around them. Unfortunately we aren't seeing much of that from our union leadership. They pacify with a few bold words but when we have an opportunity a cost neutral solution is put forward and spun as a win. Why not do things a different way. We need to re-evaluate constructive engagement. It's become a problem for us getting compensation, work rules, QOL, etc back on track.

 

Spot on......

 

Then I respectfully submit that ALPA do a better job of "communicating" to the A4A and the flying public of what we are worth.

What is wrong with ALPA managing some expectations for once? A4A members do it professionally. And constantly.

 

I've been to the PI, I've given enough.